Shitty Recruiting Tactics Discussed by Industry Veterans

Ever find yourself shaking your head at questionable recruitment tactics? Join us on Jaded HR as we unravel the sometimes absurd world of human resources with our signature straight talk and a sprinkle of wit. In this particular gabfest, I'm joined by fellow HR aficionados Jazmine and Kristina, with a special shoutout to our pinch hitter filling in for CeeCee. We're spilling the tea on everything from high-pressure job offers to the true colors of the recruitment process. Grab your earbuds, because this is the insider HR chatter you've been craving.

Picture this: a friend's entanglement with a too-good-to-be-true job offer that reeks of desperation rather than opportunity. We dissect these all-too-common scenarios and share firsthand accounts from Jazmine and Kristina, who've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly in the recruitment trenches. Whether you're a seasoned HR pro, a bewildered job seeker, or just along for the ride, you're in the right place to get the lowdown on the employment battlefield. So, come for the rants, stay for the reality checks – we're dishing out the unvarnished truth here at Jaded HR.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Had you actually read the email, you would know that the podcast you are about to listen to could contain explicit language and offensive content. These HR experts' views are not representative of their past, present or future employers. If you have ever heard my manager is unfair to me. I need you to reset my HR portal password, or Can I write up my employee for crying too much? Welcome to our little safe zone. Welcome to Jaded HR.

Speaker 2: 0:47

Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by three HR professionals who want to help you get through the workday by saying everything you're thinking, but say it out loud. I'm Warren.

Speaker 3: 0:59

I'm Jasmine. I'm Christina.

Speaker 2: 1:01

All right, we got it down. Third time, fourth time. What is this fifth?

Speaker 3: 1:06

time a charm.

Speaker 2: 1:07

Tommy pressed the record button.

Speaker 3: 1:09

I was like wait, we didn't talk about who was saying it first, who?

Speaker 2: 1:13

goes first, but it worked. Improv is good, so anyhow. So it's been a while since y'all been online with us or been on there with us. So, yeah, I'm glad to get y'all been online with us. I've been on on there with us, so, yeah, I'm glad to get y'all back. I'm glad you're willing to pinch hit for cc as she is out, but we're going to have a series of pinch hitters while cc is being with baby.

Speaker 2: 1:35

But before we get to our show today, I want to announce we have yet another new patreon supporter, michael. So michael joins bill and hallie, the original jaded hr rock star, as our patreon supporter. So thank you very much for your contribution. You can be like them and support us on patreon, but if you want to support the show, you can also leave us a review, send us a note on a story, a note, something like that on social media. Let us know and we'll get you on here and talk about your story. So that is what I want to cover for that today.

Speaker 2: 2:08

But we got a cool topic today and it's inspired by a conversation I had with a friend shitty recruiting tactics and I really thought that we would be beyond shitty recruiting tactics, especially in this economy, but it appears not, and we were talking on the phone. I think both of you have some experience with shitty recruiting tactics in this economy, but I don't know. So I'll go ahead and dive in with my friend's story. They work at a position at IT and they got a call from a recruiteriter and they're happy in their job. They weren't really looking to look there they don't know where the resume got found or anything like that but they engaged, said okay, let's, let's just see where this goes.

Speaker 2: 2:53

And they had their phone interview with the inner recruiter first round phone interview with the company and then a second round in person with the company. And then a few days later they got called with an offer and you think, oh, it sounds like everything's working the way it's supposed to. No, they told me he had till five o'clock that day to accept or decline their offer because they had like five other well-qualified candidates but he was their number one pick and they wanted to have him. And he's just said, no, I'm not playing that game, that's not for me, I'm not going to make a big decision in a few hours like that. So he just told him flat out no, and about a week later he got another call from him and said hey, we'd like to see if you're still interested in position. He said, no, I'm not.

Speaker 4: 3:42

When I said no, I meant no, no.

Speaker 2: 3:45

No means no.

Speaker 4: 3:48

So they called him back after. He was like listen, this is not for me. And they said we have a new offer for you, even though we said they had to get through the other.

Speaker 3: 4:00

What four candidates? Four or five?

Speaker 2: 4:02

candidates To all tell no.

Speaker 3: 4:04

So I mean, it took them a minute. Then they popped back in and said hey, what do you think?

Speaker 4: 4:10

Do you think five other people told them no, or do you think there was no other people?

Speaker 3: 4:14

There were no other people.

Speaker 2: 4:17

In this economy it's searching for y'all. Both have very good experience in recruiting, more recent than my experience in recruiting. Both have very good experience in recruiting, more recent than my experience in recruiting, and to have one good candidate, much less five. I mean, if I had the ability, I would hire five people if I found them, and just put it up on operations. Hey, your turn.

Speaker 3: 4:42

And it's not to say that they didn't find great candidates that could have filled that role. But to me, when you are pressuring someone, that pressure is because, yeah, we might have some other candidates but we really don't want to go with them. We really would like to go with you, or this is a quick turnaround. Christina, you know in government, you know this is a quick turnaround. We have to get this signed off today or else we can't be it. So it's not to say that there weren't other people, but I mean, there's a, there's a good chance that no, it was. It was just, especially with how quick the phone interview to the, to the in-person or other virtual interviews that they were having. That means they had to also do that with. You know, at least those five other candidates too.

Speaker 3: 5:28

It's just questionable to me.

Speaker 2: 5:29

I didn't think about it that way, but yeah, you're on to something there. Why?

Speaker 3: 5:35

are you looking like?

Speaker 2: 5:35

that.

Speaker 4: 5:39

Okay, I want to back up for just a second. As a recruiter, I hate this story because it really it's evidence against what I tell everyone to do, because I think that your friend started off great right. He just was like let me, let me respond to this message and see what comes of it, and I think that that's great. I think there's no harm in that If you are working and you get a message from a recruiter I I think there's no harm in that if you are working and you get a message from a recruiter.

Speaker 4: 6:07

I don't think it's nice to ignore recruiters. I don't think it's nice to be rude to recruiters and be like get the hell out of here, what are you messaging me for? Because they're just trying to do their job. But to then take that opportunity where someone did entertain your message and then try to strong on them into making a very quick decision when it sounds like you weren't honest in the process, like that's too much. That is why people are more inclined to just ignore our messages or just to tell us like you're stupid, I hate you, I don't want to work with you, so that kills this whole. Like I don't want to work with you, so that that kills this whole. Like I don't know that recruiter, I have no idea who they are, but I don't like you, whoever you are.

Speaker 2: 6:54

That's exactly it.

Speaker 4: 6:55

You know, jasmine and I talk about this all the time Changing jobs is a big decision for someone to make, and so if, especially if, I recruited someone who is happily employed, I will go to great length to try to talk them out of accepting an offer, to make sure that they are truly interested in this opportunity. So there is no, I need a decision from you by morning. There's no, I don't like the 24 hour thing. You got to give people ample time to like really think through. What are their questions? What does this process look like? How does this impact them, how does it impact their family, how does it impact their daily routine and everything? There's so much to think through. It's such a big decision.

Speaker 3: 7:39

And that was my thing with it too is like you have to. It seems that in this situation it moved very fast. And when you with it too is like you have to. It seems that in this situation it moved very fast. And when you're happy, sometimes you don't think about the things that are there making you happy until you go to that other position and you're like, oh, wait a minute. You know we did talk about benefits, but I had this at my previous job benefits, but I had this at my previous job and you said, as you know, this recruiter that was trying to get me in you said this would be one thing. And then it turns around and that's not true. So it's like how can you really truly get to know the things that you need to know? You, you can't know everything about a company. To me, I don't believe you can know everything about a company before you accept their offer letter, but certain things that you can know. If you don't have the time to do that, right, there is the red flag.

Speaker 2: 8:33

And they're not giving you the time, even if I don't know if he asked hey, I need more time, but he just said once they told me you have to tell me by 5 o'clock today.

Speaker 3: 8:42

And he was like no, well, me by five o'clock today. And he was like no, Well, let me make this simple Before we get off the phone.

Speaker 2: 8:51

I can go ahead and tell you no, yeah, but this economy I would think you're going to. You know, nurture your candidate and hold their hand and caress them and send them nice little text messages. I'm still thinking about you when you've got that nice candidate that you want in the recruiting world. You know that's what you have to do these days. Well, that was like two years ago.

Speaker 3: 9:14

Now the tide is turning where it's like, oh well, the employee employers have the upper hand again, so we no longer need to hold hands and we don't need to reach out to people and see hey, do you have any questions? Now it's just like you know, I'm giving you this information, make a decision, and I don't think that's really what the market looks like, but I do think that's what people think. That is what the market is now. Is that, oh well, y'all had y'all two, three years of working from home. Y'all had y'all two, three years of getting like crazy, sign on bonuses or salaries or all of that, but now it is time for us to take back. Y'all are going to come in this office that I pay for, y'all are going to hit the bare minimum of what, what we should or have to pay, and y'all are going to be okay with it, because now everyone needs a job yeah, do you, but do you think the employers are in charge now huh, what did you say?

Speaker 2: 10:20

oh I I was asking do you think the employers really are in charge now, or I still think it's a candidate's market? There's so many jobs out there.

Speaker 4: 10:30

Listen, let's be honest. It is always the candidate's market, because if you are an employer and you need to hire people, candidates always have the power to say no. They always have the opportunity to negotiate. They always have another option. Even if, I think all the way back to 2008, when it was not looking good out there, the people who wanted to find another job had options. I think even in 2012, when everything was coming back, they still had options. They have options. They don't have to accept until we change hiring to reflect what the WNBA draft that is happening right this minute and all of the employers get to put us in one room and they get to just pick us off one by one. It is a candidate's market. Once we move to a draft style hiring process, it is no longer a candidate's market. You just like cross your fingers and hope the team that you want to work with christina, you have just been drafted to florida.

Speaker 3: 11:42

What is your reaction? Oh my god, you have to. Oh, and it will be even better, like once you get so far up in your career. You now have to be the state HR person, so you have been drafted florida's hr go-to person I would rather work at the worst mcdonald's you've ever been at.

Speaker 4: 12:12

Okay, the worst mcdonald's. Whatever you're thinking of, multiply it by 50. Do not draft me to florida. What, what in the world that I'm going to have nightmares? Thank you, jasmine. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 12:27

Well, this sort of goes perfectly into something we were discussing offline. The WNBA draft is going on right now as we're speaking, and how that would work if everybody's careers were chosen by employers just lining you up and you get virtually no say in what, where you go. I know their agents are working business deals. Hey, my client, if you, if you select them, my client will take a five-year deal versus senior deal. You know all that other. You know jerry mcguire crap behind the the scenes there. But that would just be crazy. And then we were also talking. The nba. Wmba drafts are lottery system, so the team's order is random.

Speaker 4: 13:12

But in, like the nfl, you go to that and the last place team gets the number one pick and if you're that number one recruit, you just got screwed you know what, though, that is like the picture perfect, like that plays out so perfectly because we've all worked with that one person who like doesn't really pull their weight in the office and they just kind of do the bare minimum and then they get like promoted or they get a raise and no one's adding more work to their desk so that like mid-tier player that ends up getting draft to like one of the best team where he's not gonna have to do any work. Like hell, maybe we're already living in a draft society.

Speaker 3: 13:56

The recruiters are just the agents I was gonna say I kind of feel like in in certain aspects of it. This is it's not as bad, but it is a little bit like the drafts, um, and not just WNBAs, it's also like NFL, like with with picking benefits and the salaries like, or even with salary of companies or states and cities that say, oh, you have to. The range is from one cent to two cents and then you got to be drafted into that. You're just like oh can I?

Speaker 1: 14:35

just retire.

Speaker 2: 14:38

Man we have lost our way, somebody's got to be the HR director of Chipotle.

Speaker 4: 14:43

You know what I would take that over Florida? I was going to say I don't feel like that would be.

Speaker 2: 14:47

you know it has its ups and downs, but no, they're just always in the news for doing something extremely stupid. Oh, that's true.

Speaker 4: 14:57

But I can handle that. I can fix extremely stupid I cannot fix Florida.

Speaker 4: 15:02

I cannot fix Florida, I cannot fix Florida, I cannot fix Florida. So you know, I think that it's always funny whenever employers like feel like they start doing like you said, jasmine. It's an employer's market. Now we get to kind of do whatever we want in this deal and they'd expect you a very qualified, qualified, sought after person, to make a decision by 5 pm. When you went through I don't know 30 rounds of interviews, it took you 30 days to look at the first application you got. Or you know, sometimes I get a new client and it's like we've had this job posted for three months but no one's had time to go through the applications to see who we should interview. And I'm like those people who applied three months ago are like they're gone. They're giving you shitty reviews on Google right now. They're not interested in coming to work for you anymore. Like you haven't said a word to them.

Speaker 4: 15:58

You take your time on doing everything possible. Or I had a scenario last year. I had a very, very difficult, highly technical position to fill. I'm super proud of myself. I found a really good candidate, everything's going well, he's enjoying it, them, they're enjoying him, this is like perfect.

Speaker 4: 16:21

And so they get into salary negotiations and I back out because I don't care, you guys work it out and they come up with a really, really good offer for him, so like a good enough offer that he probably would have said yes by 5 pm that day, you know. I mean he couldn't turn it down. And then he goes to work and then suddenly they have an issue that they can't resolve and it has nothing to do with him, it has to do with their customers. And so they're like oh, we got to lay this person off, so specialized, there's nowhere else in the organization for this person to go.

Speaker 4: 17:01

And now I'm like we did all that work and you didn't think far enough through to see this, but you expect candidates to be okay with whatever you put in front of you, like not this particular client, but all employers. You want candidates to be okay with whatever you put in front of them, but then don't turn around and give them the same respect when it's time to have the reverse conversation. And it makes no sense to me. Either you want to be that personalized organization where we're a family or whatever people say, or you don't, and it's okay if you don't. I prefer if you don't, but that means you have to take that into consideration through the entire process, right? You can't pretend you are and then, when you have to make a difficult decision, just kick someone to the curb with no second thought.

Speaker 3: 17:52

That's why I have a really big issue with what leadership expects not only out of candidates that they're looking to have in or join the company, but also of their employees that they currently have right now. And one issue that this might be going off on a tangent in a different direction, but is when you're showing more respect and more appreciation to the people that you're recruiting versus the people that you already have on staff and thinking about those employees.

Speaker 3: 18:24

But leadership, from what I have seen, has taken a really big downfall in saying oh well, you know, we're the leaders, we know everything, we know what organizations are doing. I'm talking to other CEOs so clearly I know what other companies are doing.

Speaker 4: 18:49

I talked to other CEOs who also don't know the details of what's happening at the day-to-day level.

Speaker 3: 18:55

I like done and that so.

Speaker 4: 18:57

I was.

Speaker 3: 18:57

I was like sitting out literally getting my hair done today and I was listening to my stylist talk to some other ladies about.

Speaker 3: 19:06

You know, they have an employee that they're not really sure if the employee is getting like they. They assign the employee a task and in their mind they gave the employee what that employee should talk about doing a cold call. You know, this is what I want you to talk about. But then you don't go and actually train that person and so when that person says, hey, I don't really know what I should say or how should I address if they come to me with this, but you're expecting them to just pick it up and understand it. You're expecting candidates to just say, hey, I'm gonna go out and research and do all of the things that the recruiter or the hiring manager or whoever it is should be talking and telling me about. You're expecting a candidate to do that and then also say, hey, why do I have to keep following up with you? You claim you want me, but you haven't. We've had this phone screen but then you haven't reached back out. Like what are we going to do here?

Speaker 2: 20:09

Well, ghosting is real. Everybody's talking about it. I mean, I hate these terms, but ghosting is a real, legitimate term that has to be talked about. I think because and I'm probably guilty of it too my goal, if I don't ever talk to you and I just screen your resume and I don't not going to go forward with you, click the button and you get an email, but after we've talked, I'm going to at least try to leave you a message, say hey, I'm sorry we're, we're going to go another direction, or this isn't going to work for us, or whatever it is Something in person. I'm not going to bend over backwards and try and leave you five messages until I get you, but I'm going to try and make it as personal as I can Because, honestly, you had that candidate in your hand.

Speaker 2: 20:49

There was some interest on both ends. At some point maybe next month, maybe next year, there's going to be another opportunity that that person would be the perfect fit for. You can't go burning the recruiters and the hiring managers, can't go burning bridges with these candidates, because in smaller areas, like where I'm at, people are going to know quickly oh, don't even apply there, they're crap.

Speaker 3: 21:14

And you know what else too. It's not just phone screens.

Speaker 3: 21:17

Let me say this to all recruitings, hiring manager, recruiters, hiring managers, whoever you want to be if you have a candidate complete a take home assignment and that candidate does that assignment, because a lot of the times, like Tommy, you send me an email and say, oh, I need you to do this, no, we can talk about it, but I'm not going to do this assignment. But if you have someone complete assignments and then you do not follow up with them, burn down the building. Burn down the building, you know those assignments cannot be trusted.

Speaker 4: 22:06

They cannot be trusted. I saw a tweet it's been a couple of months ago now and somebody you know there's some smart influencers, there's some influencers that are just clickbait and there's some influencers who, I think, actually believe this stuff that comes out of their mouth. And this woman in a leadership role somewhere tweeted out something about an interview hack and it's basically like giving candidates the homework of like whatever their problem is right now, have four or five top candidates complete it and then you don't have to hire anybody. And I was like, oh my, my god, that is a horrible idea.

Speaker 3: 22:45

that is so bad, that is not a good way that it definitely falls under the shady recruiting that oh yeah talking about and just to just to like before we go on, do not burn down these people building, because I don't have no insurance money to give you.

Speaker 4: 23:04

So it was a gut reaction and I gave all my money. I gave all my money to the IRS today, so I can't help you either.

Speaker 2: 23:12

Oh yes.

Speaker 4: 23:13

I cannot help you either.

Speaker 2: 23:15

Actually, I've heard that a lot of places. If you give work assignments or trial assignments to people, that's compensable, they should be paying you, even if it's for that work. Especially, you know, if you're doing something shady, like that person on Twitter hey, let's just give everybody a sign. Then we get five choices options. Hey, let's let them work their age. Give them your hardest problem and see who solves it, and don't hire.

Speaker 3: 23:41

And then you're upset that that candidates have these experience like we. We get it. We know our recruiters, our employers are not the same. But when a candidate is going through this experience and you know they're having they're in this job market and this job market. It's not easy. This job market and this job market is not easy. It's. It's hard to continue to get no's when you know you are a valuable person who brings a lot, who can bring a lot to an organization. So it's still hard to get the no's. But I think we need to be like, just have more grace with candidates, not saying that candidates need to be able to walk over people or whatever recruiters are fearing, but like, acknowledge the job market and what it is okay, time out.

Speaker 4: 24:27

Don't blame it all on the recruiters because well, it's not just recruiters. No, they're not hiring me because they're behind that recruiter telling them like this is, this is, this is and we don't have as much pull as we would like to think we do all the time.

Speaker 3: 24:42

No, I completely agree with that and I also think of that in the hr sense, like a lot of people are, like I can't believe hr did this, hr did that.

Speaker 3: 24:49

Hey, hey, sweets did you know that hr is an employee, that hr has somebody they also have to report to, and a lot of times hr professionals have given the ceo or leadership or managers a different you know outcome and say, hey, you should actually do this, have to report too, and a lot of times hr professionals have given the ceo or leadership or managers a different you know outcome and say, hey, you should actually do this and they're like, but we're going to do this instead and you're going to have to go with that so now you're well within their rights to do right, but also like let's be honest, like eight times out of ten, you guys didn't even tell us what was going on until it was done.

Speaker 2: 25:23

Anyway, that's a different episode. The hiring managers you start recruiting and you get some candidates lined up and then on paper, that's not what we're looking for at all, and like what?

Speaker 4: 25:36

That's why an intake meeting. Recruiters should be having intake meetings with hiring managers. Every single time you get a job order, I don't care how many times you've worked that job order you have an intake call with that hiring manager because otherwise you will end up exactly where we're interested. You're going to have a perfect fit on paper that matches what you guys put down on paper internally and they're going to be like not even close, put down on paper internally and they're going to be like not even close.

Speaker 3: 26:02

But then you have to think about those, those hiring managers or those in leadership who are, like you know what we need. I don't have time to have this intake meeting with you to tell you what need, what is needed in this position. Like you read the job description, just like I did, from whatever it came from.

Speaker 4: 26:22

So you know, in my very first big girl staffing job, I was really good at what I did. I was good and I always required the intake process right, because I can't serve you as a client if you don't give me more information. And we had like 22 offices at that company that I worked for at the time, all spread across the Southeast, and I was like outbilling everyone and everyone else was like but she turns work away. We don't understand, like they truly didn't get it. And I'm like well, because you've got your team working on jobs that you haven't really truly qualified because you didn't get it. And I'm like, well, because you've got your team working on jobs that you haven't really truly qualified because you didn't have an intake call. So you have them wasting their time and wasting candidates time.

Speaker 4: 27:08

And I don't do that. I go after work that is real that they can really have a conversation about, and I drug that with me to the corporate world. So when I had multiple hiring managers that I was supposed to serve as the recruiter of the organization, I would just be like if you can't sit down and answer these questions, I cannot work on your job. I'm going to put it to the side. You let me know when you have time, because otherwise you're going to get what I think you should have, and you're probably not going to be happy with that, because I have a totally different perspective than you do and I don't think enough recruiters push back and I don't think enough recruiters feel comfortable pushing back on that Like that is a legitimate step in the hiring process that should be required everywhere.

Speaker 4: 27:56

So that is something that's not like a preference, that's not like a I hope I have this in my next job. That is something that is required for you to be able to go and execute your job well that knows short-term disability rights, I guess, and you're like no, I need a systems technical developer.

Speaker 3: 28:24

I didn't know what that means.

Speaker 4: 28:28

I'm not going to lie. I was told to my brother I didn't know where you're going with that. I was like what, what an acronym for whatever she's about to tell us.

Speaker 3: 28:38

Well, I figured this is Jada. We needed to have a little fun. Vince McMahon.

Speaker 2: 28:44

Oh gosh.

Speaker 4: 28:46

I don't know. Well, okay, so what about this, though? Because I literally just came off of this, I don't know, a week ago or so, I am going to tell y'all something honestly the worst part of my job is rejecting candidates, and I know that feels like an answer a recruiter would give you, but it sucks, and especially like with my husband going through a job search right now and like seeing him have to navigate the rejection. Jasmine's recent experience like it's so much more personal to me than it ever has been, even though I've always taken that pretty seriously. But I had a position I was just working. Hopefully it'll be closed soon. We've got some good candidates that we've narrowed it down to.

Speaker 4: 29:26

320 people applied, like in a week, to this job, and so, like at first pass through, you know when they say stuff like oh, recruiters spend like six seconds on your resume. This is why because that first pass today, we're down. 320 candidates. I'm looking for the top things that are required for that job, right, so typically I'm just a. I'm a team of one, right, I'm a team of one person. So typically and I have like 20 applicants I can get a little bit personal when I send you a rejection email and I can say, hey, we're looking for this and we didn't see this on your resume.

Speaker 4: 29:59

So you know we're going to go out with a different candidate. But you know, stay in touch or whatever the right message is. It's different for each client. But when I have 320 of those to do, you kind of get like a standard rejection email and I hate it and it and it and it bugs me. But I think sometimes you know, candidates don't know what I'm doing on the inside and they're just seeing what they get. And sometimes we're upset for the wrong reasons, because if it says minimum qualifications or whatever these three things are, and you know you don't have those three things, can you really be upset with me for giving you a generic rejection email? I don't know. What do you guys think?

Speaker 2: 30:42

No, absolutely not. At least you're getting something. I. I, I feel you wanting to give a personalized touch, especially in your, your situation, your recruiting party company of one, and you know you don't want to burn those bridges with his clients. But if you know, I've got 25 plus years in HR, I'm not going to apply for some, I don't know accounting job somewhere and expect to get an interview. I don't hit the minimum qualifications and and but I, I also do think too many people think that they have to hit each one of the bullet points. Many people think that they have to hit each one of the bullet points. Hey, there's 10 bullet points. I hit five. I'm applying, baby, you know, let's see what it is. Uh versus oh. You know, I've got nine of these, but I don't have the 10th one, so I'm not gonna apply. I. I see people talking about that all the time, like you know, especially as easy it is to apply online.

Speaker 3: 31:38

At most places nowadays it's indeed one click apply, oh my god, wait a minute now, warren, wait a minute now now the ones who have to apply online.

Speaker 2: 31:50

Upload your resume.

Speaker 4: 31:51

Then type your whole resume in again, those 1990s atrs systems, atrs reading those like if, if companies still have those, is anyone completing them? Are they all just giving up?

Speaker 3: 32:01

I will say so I will say the issue that I found the most is like you would upload the resume and they it would put the information in, but it doesn't put it correctly all the time.

Speaker 3: 32:17

So those I would be more willing to you know correct. But there was one that I would upload the resume and like nothing would come over and it would then have to. You then have to go through and list every single thing and I was just like you know what this ain't for me, yeah, but so for me, what I found is no, I don't if it's you know something big when I apply to something, if we have never spoken, then sending me a generic email stating that you're going with another candidate, okay, cool. Once we hit a phone screen, I'm still fine with you sending me an email. I like it. I would like it to be personalized to me, but I am still fine with just a phone screen once. Once we get more than a phone screen, maybe a phone call, but I'm not really a phone call person, especially if you're about to reject me for something. So that's why it's a little different for me.

Speaker 3: 33:17

That is fine if you would still send me an email, or maybe you know. Tell me, hey, I'm about to reject you, so I can then just send you the voicemail. But no, I and hey.

Speaker 2: 33:27

Jasmine, can I give you a call to reject you real quick? Yep.

Speaker 3: 33:30

I'm gonna hang up, call me right back and I'm gonna reject it in there. So it's just if that works out. But I think that is the issue with some candidates. They are expecting you to send them exact details on why they weren't selected and it's just like you have like nothing and this isn't one of those. Oh, anyone can learn this type of job. This is no. I need this skill and you do not have this skill, so okay.

Speaker 4: 34:02

But so we have covered in this conversation a lot and we have been around the world, like we always do in our conversations, but we've covered so many different variables about how your application is reviewed, how job orders are taken, how jobs are posted, how you can apply. So that's what job seekers are up against is. We've just shared so many different opinions about the same process and it's not consistent across the board everywhere. So, like my heart goes out to people because I'm like, especially when I see someone who has zero like qualifications or maybe one qualification from the job, I just immediately go like okay, this person has probably been searching for a job for a while now and they're just like desperate and they're just applying to everything. And I just wish I had the time to have a one-on-one call with all of these people and say, hey, how can I help you? Because this is not the job, this isn't the one. But tell me what's going on.

Speaker 4: 34:56

Of course, again, one person shop. I do not have that kind of time. Even if I had a team of people, I probably wouldn't have that kind of time. But it just sucks when you think of, like you know, you've got recruiters out here and maybe, maybe it wasn't a shady recruiter, maybe it was a hiring manager giving that recruiter a lot of pressure to get this wrapped up, for whatever reason. Like Jasmine's example earlier, they wait until the last minute. They've got to get this locked up or they can't proceed with, like whatever new business idea or proposal or whatever.

Speaker 4: 35:28

But also like I I still encounter, like some old school hiring managers who think that recruiters should be doing that activity to people to get them to say yes to a job offer or like I see it in staffing, sometimes, when I'm like you know, the hiring manager will be like you need to let your candidates know that if they turn this down like they're making you look bad, no, no, no, no, no. Really, if they turn this down after they interview with you, that's on you, buddy, that's not on me. They're not making me look bad. They're making an informed decision for themselves. But there's all this. The point is, there's all this conflicting information and there's so many people who have their hands in the process and a lot of times it's just a bad hiring process, like what the hell are candidates supposed to do?

Speaker 3: 36:16

it's tough, it's tough I don't know what candidates are supposed to do like seriously being in this, and I am very, very grateful and blessed that I was able to find a position in the time frame that I have, because I see, you know, I get on LinkedIn every single day and people are out there and they're just it's been six months since my layoff, it's been over a year since my layoff, and it's like you go and sometimes I really like I will go and look at what they have and I'm like, wow, of course I have the stuff, like I don't know what this person is doing, but from what I can see on their background, it's like, you know, they have some really good experience.

Speaker 3: 36:54

I saw, right before we got on this conversation, I actually saw someone tweet and they had a picture up of a LinkedIn profile. And actually saw someone tweet and they had a picture up of a LinkedIn profile and it was like this person stayed here for like six months. Another person stayed here for well, they, the same person, stayed at another company for nine months and they were the person that posted. It was like do do candidates think that this job hopping is, you know, good for for them? And I'm like, well, first of all, one position says it was a contract. So if that was a six-month contract, then they knew what they were going to complete yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 37:27

And then the other one. Again we're in. We are in an area in which you don't know that that person decided to leave that job after nine months. That person could have had a really great, enjoyable experience and got laid off due to a number of reasons, or had a crappy manager and the manager is a hater and was like you know what we got to find a way to get you up out of here.

Speaker 3: 37:50

Like y'all people you know, and not just recruiters, but like these LinkedIn influencers and everything are just putting so much on what people have on a piece of paper which, yes, yes, there's somewhere to start, but you really don't know what a person is going through Just by looking at their resume. You don't know their background, you don't know the the issues that they've had at workplaces that's due to no fault of what they are trying to do as a candidate or as an employee. Like, I think we're just putting so much expectations on on employees or candidates and then, as companies, we are not putting ourself or holding ourselves to those same standards just because we make a certain amount of money. It's just like, oh well, we can do what we please. And I think that is where truly the big issue of you know, work is.

Speaker 3: 38:44

But you know, like I, said earlier I'm on a leadership kick, so we'll see understandably so I I think you, you have the the problem.

Speaker 2: 38:58

You, for years we'd shit on millennials because they were the first job hopping group, and then after that, now we're shitting on Gen Z. They're the same way. But now you know, the millennials are in their 30s and 40s, they've settled down and they're you know, they're here and they're kicking ass.

Speaker 3: 39:18

Well, first of all, Warren, we were always doing that. So I mean hello, yeah, yeah, yeah, kicking ass and well first of all, we were always doing that, so I mean hello yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:27

As an old xer, I just remember all these conversations about the, the kids coming out today and now I'm hearing it to go. You know soon, you know they're going back that the next group of kids they're the alphas and I think they're entering the job force in like five years or something like that like yeah, and so this is.

Speaker 4: 39:45

This is also I mean, this is a classic hiring mistake, and I believe this is a classic hiring mistake that enables the shitty behavior that we see sometimes from recruiters or hiring managers is that employers want to hire what they want to hire. You have got to change with the labor market. You can't just will something into existence as an employer. So for these Gen Z folks, specifically for Gen Z, I just had this conversation today with someone who wanted to know where they fell in the market with return to work, stuff, okay. And so I'm talking to them and I'm like, okay, but we're going to see the ramifications for this for years to come, because it's not just, oh, those of us millennials and up who were already in the workforce and went home for a couple of years. That was sparked by COVID. It's also the fact that we have college students who finished college remotely when they started in person. We have high school students who finished high school remotely when they started out in person, and so that is their world. Now they expect hybrid to be an option for almost anything that they do, because that's what they've experienced and it was successful for most people and I know some people are outliers and they didn't have a good time and they want to be in the office or they want to be, you know, in person or whatever, but most people are to the point where they're going to expect hybrid.

Speaker 4: 41:20

So, yeah, maybe you can force all your millennials and up back into the office, because we know a different time in the workplace. These kids are coming in with different expectations. These kids are coming in with different skill sets, different mindsets, different work ethics, and you can't just keep hiring these people and then firing them because they're not doing exactly what you wanted them to do. You have got to change with the labor market and that doesn't mean, like Jasmine said earlier, that candidates get to come in and then get to walk all over us. It means that maybe you have to do more training than you had to do in the last five years. Maybe you have to take more entry-level people. Maybe you have to develop an internal labor pool for a specific skill set that you're not seeing in the job market anymore. Maybe you have to get creative in a lot of different ways to make sure that you're shifting to whatever the available talent is.

Speaker 2: 42:12

Yep.

Speaker 4: 42:13

Otherwise, you're just going to be making poor decisions.

Speaker 2: 42:17

Exactly, exactly. Well, I was just going to add one personal, the only shitty recruiting experience I ever had as a candidate. It was my first job that I took out of college. I went to work as a retail manager, which I am not well suited for that at all. But here's why, and I knew that. I knew I'm not a customer service, people pleasing type person. I knew that. But the line the recruiter gave me was the pathway to the whole corporation starts in the store. And so I got recruited as assistant store manager. That's a great line, yeah, and that's all it was, was a line. I was assistant manager on my second year review, the district manager sat down with me and he said well, you're on the short list for getting your own store. And dah, dah, dah I'm talking to these future plans. It's great, but that's not what I want to do. I want to. You know my degree's in HR, I want to get into HR. And the recruiter told me that you know the pathway. The whole corporation starts in the store.

Speaker 2: 43:24

He says, says I've been with the company 30 some years I've never seen someone go from the store to corporate and and that was I my resume hit the market like the next morning and I was not there much longer after that yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 3: 43:35

so I didn't have that experience of me, of them telling me that I would go to corporate. But for a my last year or two with Chuck E Cheese I really, really wanted to become an HR person at Chuck E Cheese.

Speaker 4: 43:55

Oh, Whatever, I never really pursued it.

Speaker 3: 44:01

No, I was so serious I thought so checker cheese corporate is they were I don't know if they still are was in texas and I was like, oh my god, that would be like amazing, I'm gonna move out to texas, I'll be an hr person for check it out, like I was. I was ready and willing and I never pursued it.

Speaker 1: 44:23

But that's actually a good line Warren.

Speaker 3: 44:25

I mean I feel like more companies are. They might have that.

Speaker 4: 44:30

You might hear that some more who can I, who can I work that in for with my current client base? I don't know it's a good line I? I got a little nervous, jasmine. I thought you were about to talk about your last recruiting experience and I was like what are you about to say? How would you rate your recruiter on a scale of one to 10? 10 being the best?

Speaker 3: 44:53

Oh, I can't say what I was about to say, but the recruiter was a 10. I can tell you that much.

Speaker 2: 44:59

You're putting those.

Speaker 3: 45:06

Taylor.

Speaker 4: 45:07

Swift parts down.

Speaker 3: 45:11

I don't know the kids need something different now.

Speaker 4: 45:13

Okay.

Speaker 1: 45:16

All right? Well, I don't know my brain.

Speaker 4: 45:20

it's hard for my brain.

Speaker 3: 45:21

The recruiter thought you were a 10, well, I don't know. My brain it's hard for my brain.

Speaker 4: 45:23

The recruiter thought you were 10, too, but I'm sure I gave you a line. But the difference is, whatever line I gave you, I believed it. I didn't make something up, I believed it.

Speaker 2: 45:33

Wow, we've gone so long today. This is a good episode. I've had a lot of fun and we've got to get you all back more often. It's been over a year. I think this is the last time we we had y'all on, and it's just so much fun.

Speaker 4: 45:51

So I think it's been over a year since we've recorded anything.

Speaker 2: 45:54

You have the open door invitation. Hey Warren, I want to rant about whatever it is. You've got it. You've got an audience right here. All my dozens of listeners, Dozens of listeners.

Speaker 4: 46:06

We love your dozens of listeners. We love them yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:11

We're no longer ranked in some of these countries. I haven't looked at the ranks lately. We haven't had a review in a while, so if you enjoyed this episode, give us a review If you didn't enjoy it, don't review that episode, thank you.

Speaker 4: 46:20

No, enjoyed this episode. Give us a review. So if you didn't enjoy it, don't review that episode, thank you no, I'll read a one-star review.

Speaker 2: 46:25

The only one-star review we've ever gotten didn't have any narrative to it. We've gotten all our reviews are five stars except for one. It's like our apple rating is like 4.8 or something like that and the person didn't have the nerve to to tell us I would have read it. I would have had some fun with it. But anyway, that's probably why they didn't have the nerve to tell us why I would have read it. I would have had some fun with it.

Speaker 4: 46:41

But anyway, that's probably why they didn't write it.

Speaker 2: 46:46

Well, I think we'll go ahead and land this plane for right now. Thank you so much for being with us and pinch hitting. This has been so much fun, and let's see best practice tonight. Don't be a shitty recruiter. That sums it up. And don't be a shitty recruiter. That sums it up. And don't be a shitty candidate. Just don't be shitty. Don't be shitty. That works too. The intro and outro music is the underscore, orchestra double the double and our voice artist is Andrew Colpa. Want to thank both of them, but, as always, I'm Warren.

Speaker 3: 47:19

I'm Jasmine, I'm Christina and we're here helping you survive HR one. What the fuck moment both of them.

Speaker 2: 47:22

But, as always, I'm Warren, I'm Jasmine, I'm Christina and we're here helping you survive HR one. What the fuck moment at a time.