Navigating the Corporate World With Aileen And Glenda From the 'Surfing Corporate' Podcast

Have you ever wondered how to navigate the challenging waters of the corporate world? Buckle up, as we bring you an eye-opening conversation with Aileen Merciel and Glenda Pacanins, seasoned veterans of the corporate world and hosts of the 'Surfing Corporate' podcast. They graciously share their unique experiences, knowledge, and perspectives on climbing the corporate ladder.

Our discussion uncovers the vital elements of personal equity and credibility, and how they can shape your corporate journey. We highlight the role of emotional intelligence in the workplace and how showcasing your accomplishments and owning mistakes can help in establishing your credibility. The duo also dive deeply into the importance of trust in the workplace, revealing some startling statistics on how much trust impacts employees' career choices and their sense of belonging in an organization.

Finally, we highlight the potential that lies in embracing generational differences, exploring how the post-COVID world opens up a myriad of opportunities when we learn from one another and work together across generations. Don’t miss the chance to learn from the rich experiences and dynamic perspectives of Eileen and Glenda, as they shed light on the unwritten rules of the corporate world and inspire us with strategies to navigate these waters more effectively. Tune in now, and reshape your understanding of your corporate journey!

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Transcript

Announcer: 0:02

Had you actually read the email, you would know that the podcast you are about to listen to could contain explicit language and offensive content. These HR experts' views are not representative of their past, present or future employers. If you've ever heard my manager is unfair to me. I need you to reset my HR portal password, or can I ride up my employee for crying too much? Welcome to our little safe zone. Welcome to JDDHR.

Warren: 0:45

Welcome to JDDHR, to podcast by four business professionals who want to help you get through to work day by saying all the things you are thinking, but say them out loud. I'm Warren. This is Feathers.

Aileen: 0:58

And I'm Aileen Mircelle from Surfing Corporate.

Glenda: 1:01

And I'm Glenn the Packard, and it's from Surfing Corporate, all right.

Warren: 1:07

As you heard, we have Glinda and Aileen with us from Surfing Corporate. We've talked about their podcast, I've referenced them a few times on other episodes, but this is really exciting to have them with us. It's been one of the guests. I always say I'm excited about all our guests, but I've been trying to make this one work out for a while and we finally made it happen. So just some quick introductions.

Warren: 1:28

Aileen is a former senior vice president at the marketing and creative side at NBC Universal and Telamundo Enterprises. She started with Sony Enterprises and grew through corporate positions in Venezuela, mexico and the United States, and she says that she was bestowed with the invaluable gift of slightly evil sense of the humor that helped her survive the corporate world and that makes her perfect for us. And then Glinda, if you don't know, is a former senior vice president, programming and content strategy at NBC Universal and Telamundo Enterprises. She describes herself as a recovering suit and thrived in using corporate email lingo, memos and presentations. So yes, I tell you I've been a fan since I first discovered your podcast on the People Problems podcast and I just I was telling you a little bit offline earlier that I think of you as a HR podcast, not a business podcast. All of your virtually all your episodes have been either HR or HR adjacent and through your podcast I've learned I've started following Dan from HR. I started following Brian Smith or David.

Announcer: 2:40

Smith and things like that.

Warren: 2:46

I've just had some. I've learned a lot from your episodes, so why don't you? I know I gave you a little brief intro. Why don't you introduce yourselves and then I'll chime in with a couple of more questions before we get into our topics.

Aileen: 2:58

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for that very kind intro and for having us. We are very flattered. So, yeah, I, as you mentioned, I built a career in creative and production industry in Latin America, in Caracas and in Mexico. So that was my. My background was very within the Latin American market and I joined.

Aileen: 3:23

I worked always with corporate America because there's always, you know, a mothership over there that has tentacles that you report into. But the first time that I actually came and worked in the US was in my late thirties. So I came at, I came at this whole corporate America thing with a very fresh pair of eyes, from something completely different. So to me it was kind of like a social experiment. I was just fascinated by how, how things worked here, and Glenda was one of the people within this echo system that was, you know, very corporate and she was amazing and she just knew always what to say and I just I was constantly thinking hopefully not out loud, sometimes out loud but what is happening? Why? Why do they talk this way? Why? Why are they like pretending to be? I don't know.

Aileen: 4:19

Everything was very formal and I came from a very non-formal world. Hr for me was also like a whole new world of things that happened. That did not happen in my experience in Latin America. So I remember finding this connection with Glenda and just sharing my impressions of what is happening. And despite her being very she'll talk about that she is very corporatey and she is really, really really good at the corporate game, but she's a good player. She uses her power for good. She doesn't use her corporate ninja power.

Glenda: 4:54

Not for evil, I promise.

Aileen: 4:56

I really really try not to be evil. So we met there and we have very different points of views, our backgrounds are very different, but we we connect on many things and I think Glenda will never be the one to make a sick joke. I don't want to say a sick joke, but just like a funny joke in a meeting. But she would always laugh at mine. So I'm like, yes, okay, there is something there, behind that suit and behind those heels there is a sense of humor. So that's how we met Glenda. If you want to expand more, yeah.

Glenda: 5:25

And Aileen always tells the story, because we do come from very different backgrounds both how we grew up, how we started in in our careers in media. She had an amazing career as a creative and I've had a really great career on the executive side, so more on the management side. So, of course, I grew up here in the States, I went to school here, I got my MBA here, so I've built my entire career here. So for me, playing the corporate game was just normal. So, like Aileen said to me, it was just one of these things that you just got to learn the rules. You got to learn what's being said, what's not being said, how to read between the lines, how to read a room, and then you got to learn how to play your game right, because at the end of the day, it really is strategic and you got to play it. I wasn't enough, I promise you I was not this very strategic person at the age of 22. No, that was not me. I happened to be very lucky, have some amazing mentors that guided me along the way, very, very generous senior leaders who put me in the right place at the right time to challenge me and grow, and I did, but fast forward 15 years into my career.

Glenda: 6:33

I meet this one, Aileen, who comes from Latin America, from a very different background, and she jokes all the time that I wear heels to everything and I do. I'm like literally wearing heels right now. If I could zoom down to my shoes, I'm literally. They're low heels, but they're heels. It just feels like part of who I am. So when she came into work and she'd be in like these cool red Converse and like really colorful jackets, instead of like the suit and the more formal attire, I was like this chick is cool, like who is this? I'm very authentic to herself. And then she would say the randomest stuff at a meeting, like she would just say things that I was like oh my God, how has nobody ever spoken like this before in a meeting? And she would just ask very point blank questions and people would be looking around like wait, did you not get the memo? We talk in like encoded language. You have to read between the lines here. You don't actually say exactly what you're thinking, not out loud in a meeting.

Glenda: 7:38

I did not get the memo I think it comes in with this very cool style and we just bonded, Like I just gravitated towards her sense of humor, because I really respect people who are authentically themselves, who can lead a team in her own way, very unique leadership style that I hadn't encountered before, but she was an effective leader. You know, even though she made the funny jokes that she would use cat memes at the end of her emails, you know it was. It worked and her team adored her for it. And I gravitate towards people who can do that, who can be that. So that's how we just became friends and I would help her, you know, tone down the emails sometimes.

Aileen: 8:17

Literally, literally, I would go to Vanda and say, clearly I was very upset about something. So I'm like this is what I want to say. I need you to make it corporate, but I want to convey my anger. Don't make it nice, but make it.

Glenda: 8:33

Do not be nice, Glenda, do not be too nice. I want to make sure that they know I'm angry, but in a nice, proper corporate way.

Aileen: 8:41

So she would be my editing guru when I was time to send a mean email that was appropriate and corporate.

Glenda: 8:49

But this is why our partnership on Surfing Corporate, I think, works so well right, because we come at it from two very different points of view. We get each other, we respect each other, but we have fun while we're at it and we like to talk about things. And this is now me, five years out of corporate. But, as I was mentioning to you guys before, I still feel very much. I have corporate in me. It's just part of who I am. So, even if I'm writing an email to pitch Surfing Corporate to something, my first draft will be extremely corporatey and then I have to be like no, no, no, I have to Aileenify it, I have to tone down the corporatey, I have to make it more in our brand voice of Surfing Corporate, which is much more open, much more fun and humor. We lead with humor when we talk about things.

Glenda: 9:31

You guys have heard our episodes and you know that that's just part of our brand. But, yes, there's a lot of research, there's a lot of deep diving into articles and we have amazing. We've been really, really lucky to have some amazing guests come on like experts in their field and really really amazing people but we still have to talk about these topics in our own voice, right? Because if not, then like what are we doing? But there's plenty of HBR, like there's plenty of, you know, fortune articles and INC articles that are wonderful, but in order to add something in our own voice. I think that's what makes us a little bit different.

Aileen: 10:05

And we have the insider point of view right, because there's a lot of theory and you guys, there are so many articles where you're like, huh, but when you've been there, you've been in the ringer and you're in that grind. Reality is a little bit different sometimes and we're able to add the real stories that go behind that research. So that's what we like to do we take that and then we tell a real story, either if it's the nose or mine or our guests. But what happened to you, like what did this thing that looks great in theory actually look like in your organization and how did things work, or not?

Warren: 10:42

I think that's the way we approach J2HR in a certain sense as well, because there's a million great podcasts. Nothing against them that they're going to give you great bullet point educational things. But if you're going to smile one time in that half hour hour probably not you'll learn a lot. You'll be better for it. We don't want to make you better for this thing, we want to have you just get a smile, because each hour can suck sometimes and you want the people that listen to us getting their card away home and say, oh, kickback, and yep, I've been there, I've done that. That happened to me today.

Glenda: 11:21

I agree on. I agree a thousand percent with that, because it's hard enough as it is right so yes, absolutely, absolutely. I loved your podcast episode on the helicopter parents. Yeah, and how that drill is to the workplace, because you know my daughters. I was just going to say, yes, I was, I was going to admit it, Aileen, you didn't have to out me. My daughters are older now, but I was a helicopter parent way back in the day when they were smaller. So I was like, oh God, I felt a little seen.

Warren: 11:54

Yeah, I personally dealt with a few, but thank goodness I don't have to deal with that any longer. So, Aileen, what was the origin? What was the impetus behind starting surfing, surfing corporate? What made you say I want to do this podcast? And where did that come from?

Aileen: 12:16

I was six years old. I had a vision.

Announcer: 12:22

Now, this new mediums will be out there.

Aileen: 12:24

It was always there. It was 2017 and I had departed ways with my, my last corporate role. I was in a big state of burnout. It was a very intense job. I loved it. There was a lot of learnings, but it was very, very intense. Had a young child.

Aileen: 12:42

It was a lot of things that led to me to say I need a break from this. And when I took that break and it also happened right after a health scare it just led me to think very hardly about why things had happened, why I had burnt out, what role I played in that and that will always go for me along the lines of humor, because it's the only way I can survive my moments of insanity. So I just started writing. I started writing and writing and that just led me to anecdotes and things that were really crazy. That happened. And then how do you tell the story? And slowly but surely, I just started writing and writing and writing.

Aileen: 13:26

And what was initially an idea of having one of those graphic books from Urban Outfitters like one of those cool bathroom books. I kept adding and adding and when I started to see where I was going, it was like I feel that this is needed, because it was all these stories really from a point of view of somebody who was there and seeing it with a mix of cynicism, with satire, with pouring your heart out and saying I really tried to do this and what happened was this and it just seemed that there wasn't much out there from a point of view of somebody who really climbed every single painful step. When you go from Glenn started as an intern, I started as a producer in Venezuela and then you go up all the way to SVP, you see things that you cannot unsee.

Aileen: 14:18

So, you have access to a ton of things that not everybody does and that just leads you to have a certain knowledge that I think should be shared. And in my case, I was always very willing to say well, that didn't go how I'd hoped and this is how it went completely wrong. But I felt that very few people in corporate do that. It's very. You showcase your awards and your recognitions and your promotions and it's all shiny, shiny and glittery and you don't show all the things that go wrong. I don't know. For me, a lot of things go wrong. Maybe that doesn't happen to other people, but Glenda is my witness.

Glenda: 14:56

There are many things, the randomest things, happen to that woman. I mean we'll come up with we'll come and tell me a story. I was like that did not happen. I mean, that did not happen. She's like, yes, it did. I'm like that is impossible. It does not happen in real life.

Announcer: 15:09

She's like no, it did yes, and until.

Glenda: 15:11

I started living it myself and I was like oh my God, woman, and for me?

Aileen: 15:16

there's so much to share there and I think it's so human to be able to say, yeah, I have this fancy title job and I screw things up royally and I share them with the coworkers, I share them with my boss, I share them with my direct reports, because you know what, I can be really good at some things and be really bad at others and make jokes about it, and I don't feel that that makes me less of a human, less of a leader. In any case, in my case, quite honestly, I really think that helped me build rapport with many people, because you're not showing this perfect facade. Well, there wasn't, I need to begin with, but again, I would hone in on can you believe I said this? Can you believe I did that and people would just laugh and that I felt really diminished many defenses that are in the corporate world out there, like you're always guarded and you're always expected to overachieve, overperform.

Aileen: 16:13

And if I'm the leader of this group and I'm telling you, man, I really stuck when I did this and the mic died and I looked like an idiot, you could just feel like breath in the room and people being able to later come to me and say I must have with this, because if not, if you don't give that freedom to the people that are working with you, everybody just feels so I didn't know, so tense the whole time and I am the opposite of perfect and I'm the one that most knows and every like no, no, and I know, don't get me wrong, I know my stuff, like I am good at what I do, but I am just a person who makes mistakes continuously all the time and I am better because of my team and if I tell them that it just we all get a good laugh and we can move forward. At least I hope so.

Glenda: 17:04

So from the writing so to the story of.

Aileen: 17:06

House of Incorporate Game 2B, that's why, I'm a creative, completely off topic.

Aileen: 17:10

My brain is going in. Thank you, glenda, and that's why we work. Yes and so, so I wrote this thing, sent it to Glenda. Glenda said yes, this is amazing. That eventually ended up becoming the idea for the podcast, and in the podcast we wanted to have an Insta account and the Insta account, kind of like, blew up and it's been. We've just built a community of really fun people that just reach out, that really feel seen and surfing. Ultimately is that it's, you know, a community of people. We're on, you know, linkedin and Instagram. We have the podcast. We're, of course, on threads now and we just try and have fun and share our experiences and and help other people vent and have fun with it.

Glenda: 17:53

Yeah, and I think part of what Aileen is saying and her being so honest about her mistakes and everything it's, it's being able to have people feel safe, right, because now the term psychological safety is everywhere, but back then nobody talked about that stuff. I mean and you guys have been in HR for a lot longer I mean like we're, we're HR adjacent. I love that term, hr adjacent. I'm totally getting that from you, warren, thanks. Yeah, I'm putting it in the press. Kid, are you kidding me? Hr adjacent? I don't know how our HR friends are gonna feel. Like, glenda, you are.

Glenda: 18:24

So not HR, but anyway, the the point is what we wanted to do with surfing corporate is, yes, lead with humor, but also have this safe space where people can say, yeah, you know what I fucked up too.

Glenda: 18:37

Yeah, I did not, I did not do well at that meeting or I did not do well at that one. And that's what we strive to do with the guests that we bring on just being honest and and just talking from a very personal point of view, because, like you guys have noticed, like you guys talk with a very open way of all the topics that you cover, right, and that's how you connect with your listeners. Same for us. If you're not open and honest and you say shit like it is, people are gonna see through that. So I think it's really, really important that in, especially now, right to break through the clutter, you have to have a voice, but you also have to be open and honest and have people feel like they can be open and honest too for it to really work and and I do think that you, as a leader, being that open and honest, that's going to encourage that from your team and you're going to build a great culture there.

Warren: 19:26

I use a word like that you're going to build a great culture around that open and this and honest. This, because everybody will feel more comfortable. Oh, I don't have to worry as much.

Aileen: 19:37

So see, I'll give in my case, I've made many, many friends at work and I think that has a lot to do with it. It's not just you know people that you want to build goals with, it's. It's I surround myself with people that have been amazing, not only as professionals but as humans, and that has to do with the that, the atmosphere that you create. I, I want to believe yeah, yeah.

Warren: 20:05

So we were talking a little bit offline before we started recording and I just wanted to A promote your podcast because I think it is the best, including Jaded HR, the best HR podcast out there and they're not the best. I think also that your production quality is so awesome. It's a it's a very well done podcast, and I'd really enjoy each week listening to it. I know you're on a break now. Can y'all tell us when we can expect season four to start launching?

Aileen: 20:43

probably in September. We'll be back with you know, when the people you know the vacation is over and they're back facing the reality of the office.

Glenda: 20:50

That's, that's, yeah pretty much last year. We started during the summer and it was like okay but I was.

Warren: 21:00

I was just saying I love the audio quality. I love the production quality of your podcast. There are podcasts by big names like Stitcher and Wondery and you name them the big podcast companies that don't have the production quality you all have and for an independent podcast, I've never heard another independent podcast that has the the production quality you all have. So everybody, please go on your favorite podcast player and give it a listen. You will not regret it at all thank you.

Glenda: 21:30

Oh my god, my heart is filled with joy. Thank you, wow. All the all the credit goes to Aileen, though she like hustles and it's like blood, sweat and tears. I call her Edward Scissorhands because she works magic, absolute magic, with the editing and the, the audio sweetening and and all of the music and stuff. But thank you for the love yeah, right back at you.

Warren: 21:52

Well, thank you. Thank you, our last two episodes did not have good audio quality, but yeah things happen more and we have to give ourselves a little wiggle room, because you know we've had yeah hard stories too.

Warren: 22:05

No worries, like we can do a whole other podcast so the the only topic I really wanted to cover today is one that I think sort of bridges both of our genres, if you will, our categories and combining HR and the corporate world. And the term I've always used and Glenda and I Glenda and I were talking off before we started recording is political equity. And you can't find, you can't do research using political equity anymore, because if you do put be an employment, you're just going to get DEI, which is very important, yeah, and all that fun stuff. But it's political equity is a very different animal, and so I started substituting the term credibility for it. I started using some substitute terms and got some some hits off of it.

Warren: 22:52

But in addition to political equity, I also wanted to talk about emotional intelligence, because I think they go hand in hand in the workplace and those who have higher emotional intelligence in the workplace tend to have a higher political equity value. So but I do want to define, because we were talking, I guess political equity isn't the in the cool term anymore for it, it's. It's called so many different things now and, glenda, I've already forgotten what you've mentioned, you, you.

Glenda: 23:28

I've I've been referring to it as personal, like personal so to step away from the political thing, because that has so many different competitions now. So I think that there is and it's funny because you just talked about credibility maybe being a word that you can switch in and and I think that they're, they're absolutely connected. You know, when you talk about personal equity and credibility, I absolutely think they're connected. But to me, if you dig deep, if you dig in a little deeper, I do think that there's a difference, because I think of personal equity as sort of an internal driver. Right, because that's like the sum of all your skills, all of your experience, your knowledge, your reputation, all of that, and you measure your personal equity yourself, right, and I think that's something that's very innate in people. I I can't even describe my, my personal equity in words to you, Aileen, or to you guys, you know, warren Feathers because it's something that's to me very internal, while credibility, that's an external one. Right, because credibility I have no control over the credibility that I have. I I certainly influence it, but whether or not you think I'm respected and knowledgeable and and all of the stuff that that goes in with credibility, that's you, that's up to you. I can influence, I can try to convince you, but it's not my decision. You know what I mean. So I think of the two terms connected, but different, right? One is internal and one is more external.

Glenda: 24:50

I think if you frame it that way, at least for me, it's easier for me because I the other thing Aileen will tell you about me and anybody who's listened to our podcast is I'm a little bit of a control freak, a little bit, and if I have to worry about the credibility plus my own personal equity all at the same, there's only so much I can control, like. There's only so much I can do. So I'm trustworthy and I know what I'm doing and I actually can back up my shit like I know that. You know my skill set is there and that's only so much that I can handle. Though, because if, if you don't think so, then you know that's on you. At this point in my life and in my career, I can't do more than try to convince you just because of the reputation that I have. But I do think it's an interesting conversation to frame both from an internal and external perspective, because if not, we're going to drive ourselves nuts.

Warren: 25:41

There's only so much you can do oh, I was just going to say I I was also thinking of political equity is also your personal brand. Who, who you are? There's just so many close things they're close, but not exactly that I kept thinking of. But uh, I just your personal brand. What do you think? Do you a coke person? Or your Pepsi person? Are you? That's? That's your personal brand and the equity you built. Some people just like coke better, no matter what, and some people don't.

Aileen: 26:13

So yeah, but but I think that's really interesting, especially coming from you, glenda.

Aileen: 26:19

Corporate players would say that there's strategy behind that and you know and that happens in everything right in relationships with friends, with your family you can be strategic about gaining some points here by doing emotional deposits here to be able to take out later there, and I think a corporate works like that as well.

Aileen: 26:44

And, and I would say it's very different how you build this kind of credibility or personal brand or equity, however we want to call it and and it's you build it with your boss, you build it with senior management. You also build it with your coworkers, and it's different how you build it from the people that report into you or how you build it with the HR. There are different people within the organization that you need to build that credibility with, and the way you go about doing that is different with each one of those audiences, if you may. But I, when you say like it's external, glenda, I don't know like I I I see your point where, ultimately, that person is gonna make a decision or an opinion about you, but I do think that is highly influenced by certain behaviors or actions that you do. It could make a, of course absolutely a sense.

Glenda: 27:37

You are the. You're the object that they're going to make a decision about and, based on your skill set, how you perform, how you deliver, how you I mean there's a thousand ways of of showing your credibility and how knowledgeable or trustworthy you are. So there's a thousand different factors. My point in saying that there's a distinction, at least in the way I'm looking at it now. Mind you, this is not the way I used to look at it before now. I think, just with with age, with experience, with getting to a certain point in your life where you're like you know what I'm.

Glenda: 28:11

I can no longer control how you're going to perceive me. I am going to do the best that I can, but whether or not you think I'm trustworthy if, if I haven't convinced you enough, like there's only so much I can do. I think that's that's the point I'm trying to make, in that I'm not going to drive myself crazy anymore to try to convince every single person that I am the most knowledgeable or the most capable will be. I can't. I can't do that anymore and, trust me, this has taken a lot of learnings and a lot of evolution in my brain, because once upon a time I was called a little misperfect because I had to have everything perfect I have, because, again, that goes back to being the control thing, right, being the control freak of making sure that everything was to the T because if not it was going to be a bad reflection on me. I don't see it that way anymore now but isn't that liberating when you can?

Glenda: 29:02

I don't care what you think well to a certain extent, right, because I think, to a lean point, you have constituents, and I think that that's part of now. You know, and how you frame the conversation, warren, is great, because I don't think you can talk about your personal brand or your personal equity without talking about being emotionally intelligent and how emotional intelligence plays into everything. Now, because if you have a certain degree of emotional intelligence where you are self-aware, where you know how to read yourself, you know how to read other people, that just helps so much, like in the way you position yourself and you position different situations and and ultimately, you become a better corporate player, right? Yeah, we talked about that. It is. It is part of what you need to do to be successful. It's not just doing the job right, it's being a good corporate player and learning how to do it right with an example.

Aileen: 29:55

There are several and please feel free to cut me off whenever I'm like going off track, but again, when we say emotional intelligence, like I, examples are really helpful for a lot of people in our audience. So I'll just share one. I remember in the organization that we worked in and it was, it was very political, there's high stakes, there are a lot of really important players with a lot of power, and I remember being in this one meeting, again, that was the EVPs of the most important divisions, la la, and the meeting started out. It was like I don't know eight people I think you were there, glenda and one of the people one of the executives started saying something and this person just started getting agitated and this thing escalated and this person starts screaming, just screaming like with the veins in his face like bulging out and the hair was going crazy and he is.

Aileen: 30:44

It was ranting at that point, and this was like I don't know it was early in the day and we're like man what? And he's just going off, off, off, off. This was like a five minute monologue of rage. And he does this and it's very directed towards another individual in the room. He finishes his rant, he smacks his hands onto the conference room and he just leaves and slams the door.

Aileen: 31:10

And it was one of those moments where it was like it could have gone so many ways and what this other executive did in response to this. He paused, he breathed in and then he said you know what? Everybody has bad days. Ok, moving along, that is the way this dude handles something that could have been. He could have insulted him back. He could have used that to tear him down.

Aileen: 31:35

This guy chose the most elegant way to shut this down without putting that other person down. And let's advance this meeting and do what we came to do here. And those are the moments where you take note of what the right way is to deal with a really, really tricky situation. And that person, for me, gained so many points in that bank of esteem and a recognition and credibility. It's like, ok, you just won, because that was a very ethical thing for him to do and it would have been so easy for him to tear down that other person. So I have my little book of notes of those moments that can either go the way of how this guy did it or the route that isn't the very nice route of what not to do. And those are the moments where you see a little bit, you see the light of people and how they react in really critical situations and that was just like nice, nice, many, many, many pluses here for this dude, because he can be really tough, but he did this and I respected him for that.

Glenda: 32:37

Now it's funny though because that same I was at that meeting and that same executive almost came to literal blows in my office with another executive over a huge budget issue. So it talks about at any given moment people can switch because when you're working at a high-pressure situation millions of dollars on the line, whether it's we come from media, so for us it's like, ok, I'm going to be on media, so for us it's either advertising revenue or ratings and big budget productions that are like millions and millions of dollars. It's a lot of pressure. So trust me when I say I have seen it Like we've been behind the closed doors where you hear the screaming, you see those amazing examples of somebody saying you know what?

Glenda: 33:24

I'm going to choose peace today, and I am not going to tear down this person and we are going to be constructive and we're going to move on. We're not going to encourage the small talk of what just happened, oh my God, because that could have gone that way, but he didn't. He chose to focus on getting something productive out of that particular meeting. However, on another very different day, and he closed violence On another very different occasion, with a very different executive, that same person had enough and literally we chose violence that day he chose. Yeah, it's crazy, but it's funny how, when given a different situation, one person can choose to go down the path of let's do everything great, let's do the virtuous thing, or you know what? You caught me on an off day, I'm having a really shitty day, and you were just at the wrong place at the wrong time and the wrath is now going to be upon you.

Warren: 34:22

Those are both awesome stories. I think that they display how to handle situation. But, yeah, and I think both political equity and emotional intelligence is dying from the workplace and I don't intend to this be a shit on the Zoomers type of episode or anything like that, but they are going to catch some shit today and we're speaking broad stereotypical terms, so take that for what it's worth, but I'm not going to do that. I've been using Google Generative AI to help me with my show notes lately and mixed results, but anyways, I got a cool list. It gave me like 20 items, but I picked like a handful of them. My query was how to build credibility at work, and it talks about expertise and being transparent and professional, et cetera. So I picked a handful of them.

Warren: 35:15

To dive deeper, and this is how you build that equity that you can spend sometimes, or sometimes you need to cash it out. Maybe you've got your. This is your thing. I'm dying on this hill and I'm going to spend my equity and things like that. So you need to build it up. And the first thing that stood out to me is be professional, and I really wanted to emphasize that. Professional is not your job, your title. You can be the most entry level blue collar person, but you can still be professional. It's your approach to your job versus your job, your title, et cetera, those wonderful things. So that's just handle yourself.

Warren: 35:56

I had to lay off some like 19 year old kids not that long ago and I'll tell you what. They handled it amazingly and I told them and I said y'all are handling this really well. I think they saw the writing on the wall, but they handled it very well and we may be able to call them back very shortly. So that's a good thing. And had they just shown their ass and blown up at me, then we wouldn't be calling them back. I'd be calling somebody else off of Indeed for that type of role. Another thing that I took note of this is the Glinda and me making lists and doing extra research and things like that.

Warren: 36:35

Google said show proof of your accomplishments. And I think that there's a fine line and this is where emotional intelligence comes in how to show your proof of accomplishments. You have these complete A-holes out there that I did this and look at me and here I am and I'm the greatest thing in the world, and then you have the people who I want to say humble brag. Let people know their accomplishments and, on top of that, when they do accomplish something, they're not all me, me, me, hey. My team feathers help me do this. We did this together. They bring in other people Because, even if they didn't do that much, you shared a pride in the glory around a little bit.

Glenda: 37:14

Not be braggy about it.

Glenda: 37:16

I think that's a really important quality that I think you need to learn very early on, and I'm talking from the perspective of a young woman.

Glenda: 37:24

When I was fresh out of college, I found myself oftentimes being the only woman in a room with senior execs or with executive producers and again, like I said, I was very fortunate to have been mentored.

Glenda: 37:36

So my mentor was an SVP and he let me have a seat at the table at a very young age and a very young sort of starting out entry level position.

Glenda: 37:45

But it also leads you to sometimes not think that you are worthy of speaking up or not worthy of saying, hey, that was my idea, because you're just lucky to have a seat at the table and you're just lucky to be there with all the big guns, because you're just starting out. So I think, if I can just chime in on that point, warren, especially for young women out there, you really have to learn how to do it, how to own it, how to take pride and ownership of it and do it in a way that's assertive, but not do it in a way that's braggy, because nobody likes the humble brag, nobody likes the III, that situation. So there's a fine line that you have to be able to walk, because, yes, you want to be able to show that you are somebody who contributes a lot of things of value to the team, but you also don't want to do it in a way where you look like you're the loner who just wants all the acclaim and glory for herself.

Aileen: 38:40

Can I chime in on that real quick?

Aileen: 38:42

I absolutely agree. And the flip side of that, I think for me, when a leader person, coworker, direct worker, whoever it is in the scheme of the corporate game owns up to a mistake and says this is on me, I could have done this better that my equity points on that person are going to go, because it's so rare when people actually do that and I've had leaders that never did that and I had some that really did and that makes a difference, because if they're going to put themselves out there and acknowledge and take failure for the team which is rare and when they say, yeah, this is on me because I don't know, four players down, somebody messed up, that person will forever be on my good list, even if they mess up later. It's like you have ethics and you own up to things that aren't about me, me, me. It can be me, me, me in the good run, but then it also has to be me, me, me, me when things do not go the way that you want it to go.

Aileen: 39:46

That happens not very often. But those leaders, those people it doesn't have to be like a CEO of anything that can be in you or your coworker doing a project. When you own up to your mistakes, for me that is huge, huge credibility instantly.

Warren: 40:01

Absolutely. I hit the list a little bit more here. Here's something that is a dying habit is doing work without being asked. Maybe you just notice something needs to be done, but it's not my job, and I think with Zoomers, the Generation Z out there, they're becoming well known for not my job or things like that. And if you notice something needs to be done, do it, and you don't have to once again, you don't have to brag hey, look at me, I did this, just do it. It's crazy that things like that and another thing that where Zs sort of fail at, or have the reputation I should say of failing at, is living in your audience's world and I love this one because you all mentioned it earlier.

Warren: 40:45

You need to know your audience. You need to know how to play to that audience. Your higher ups are going to be one way, your subordinates are going to be another. A vendor or a peer or something else going to be another way. You need to know how to work your audience and know what's going on in their world. Maybe they're going through some stuff and you're going to take a load off of them and maybe they need more of a challenge, they need a more of a push. That's where emotional intelligence comes into it. You need to know your people and can they handle If I push. How much can I push without I get before I break them? I don't want to break them.

Warren: 41:22

Not necessarily at least.

Aileen: 41:25

I 100% agree with you on that, and I think that there is at least what I see on social media. Maybe it's not, of course, it's not for all Genziers, but there is this whole movement of do what's on your job description nine to five and get out. Like that seems to be a very trendy mentality nowadays, like don't let the man get to you and that's a strategy. That's OK if that's what you want to do. I can speak for how I was able to build my career and I I did want to grow and I did want to climb the ladder. So for me it was about over delivering and saying I'll do it, I'll do it, or I fixed this problem and I didn't feel used or exploited because of that. It was in my best interest for what I wanted to do. To do that, I gained experience, I learned a ton of things, I got exposure. Then I was asked to do more things. I could have said, oh well, pay me more for this and again, that's legitimate.

Aileen: 42:29

In my case, I was like I think I can use this to later use this for my benefit, which was really how it worked out for me, and I remember a specific time when I was complaining about how things were working in the company and I didn't like this and I didn't like this. And I remember the leader of the company saying it's really easy to criticize, and you're probably right in everything that you're saying, but if you were in the shoes of the person leading this, what would you do? And it's a lot harder to do it that way. And I remember feeling like kind of like slapped in the face and it was a good slap in the face. And I went and I took three weeks preparing a proposal of what I would do and guess what? It was a lot harder to come up with an idea than to destroy what was being done at that point. And nobody asked me to do that.

Aileen: 43:19

It took me a ton of work but that got me later like in the view and on the radar of a lot of senior people that said, okay, well, this kid I was young, whatever and she's thinking about it, so she's trying to provide solutions, even if it wasn't the best idea. It probably didn't work in the big scheme of things, but just having the person willing to do that additional work, that it's a case for you and the positive, I think. Again, if you don't want to grow in the company and you just want to reign and surf on that status quo and stay where you are. That is completely fine as well, but you just can't have it both ways. You can't grow and be like and have this amazing salary from the company and just want to do the minimum of your job description. That's kind of what I would invite people to think about, if that's where there are.

Warren: 44:10

Absolutely, and all of those things you mentioned are building equity, and then coming up with a plan is always a great first step. Complaining is easy, building a plan is hard, and then step three is executing or delivering on that plan.

Warren: 44:28

That's where the rubber reaps meets the road. Maybe you're not going to hit all 10 of your focus points or something like that, but sometimes a one or two is a win, because you came up with the idea and you execute. You got the ball further down the road. So there's a lot of opportunity there, and I just don't think the bare minimum is going to cut it, and those people that realize that sooner are going to be moved up, because when it comes time to promote the next level, hey well, look, warren only does the bare minimum, but there's Feathers and he's kicking ass and he gets this done and that done and Warren's at the door at five o'clock, on the nose every single day. It's a podcast, but Feathers is pointing himself out as the five o'clocker.

Warren: 45:16

Oh yeah 100% Like I'm out and the thing is in part of the thing I think that got me in my very first or was my very first professional career position we had. I worked in a group and we had cubicles and things and I was working with someone I really admired and they were across from me. They were a little bit more senior and had more experience and I tried to take a lot of their habits. But one thing that stood out to me we had this one person who you could set your watch to them, and this was in the 90s, leaving at five o'clock. They were past our desk at five o'clock.

Glenda: 45:52

So they were and we just mocked and the packing up and everything started literally like four. It must have been yeah. Just to get ready at the door.

Warren: 46:00

No, 415, you start packing Like you can't start a new project at 415 to be able to leave at five o'clock. No, yeah, it's over, but we mocked that person. We were very mean at Gen Xers. We can be mean as convenable.

Announcer: 46:15

Oh yeah.

Warren: 46:15

We mocked that person and I was like I'm not going to be on that list. I learned quickly, I'm not going to, that's not going to happen to me, and I stuck around and I made sure I don't want to say to be seen, but I did make sure I was seen. I'm not, hey, here I am, or anything, but people know and I think it was appreciated. Another thing on the list and this is another thing once again, shooting on Gen Z. People need to value respect over likability and I think with the social media world, the Instagram, the TikTok world that we're in, people want the likes over the respect.

Warren: 46:55

And I've spoken a couple of times about my daughter in her first professional position now and I've had to have some coach her through some tough conversations hey, it's not your, your director, you cannot worry about being liked Necessarily. That's that's further down the list. You need to do things first and then like is somewhere. Do you know they like me? It'll come. But I think people living their lives in social media and living how many Instagram likes they have and oh, my post only got 5 million likes this week but it's not a realistic thing and I think that that's really hurt people where they want to be liked and be respected.

Warren: 47:36

So just a couple of other things Encourage development in others. I mean that's, that's the first thing of being a leader. I have not humble brag or anything but my, my employees. I give them credit, every public credit, in front of our president, anytime I can, because I've got 25 years of experience. I've been around the block. I don't need that. I think I've got enough of my own political equity and I don't. It helps build me if I'm building my team and showing, hey, this person did X, y and Z and they're yeah, I might have had a hand in it, but I'm not going to say I was holding their hand or I helped them through it or anything.

Announcer: 48:12

I'm just saying hey, they did this and at my point in my career.

Warren: 48:17

I don't. I hate to say I'm not a geezer or anything, but I don't have that much more to accomplish in my HR career. I've been there, done that, got all the little certificates, pieces of paper and all that sort of fun stuff that say I'm good at what I do, et cetera. But for what they're worth, yeah, and do that for. Pay it forward. Exactly, make well advised and researched decisions. Decision making is probably one of the top things that's going to make people have good equity. Whether you make it your your person who threw a temper tantrum and the other person said, well, they're having a bad day Excellent decision making, that's a 10 out of 10. And you, you can't do anything better than you have to have. You have to develop that in others. And if you're doing the bare minimum and just working your nine to five, I mean that's a decision you made to do that and it's so, it's.

Warren: 49:12

it's so different there. So, anyways, I know.

Glenda: 49:14

And the other thing with decision making, war and sorry to jump in.

Warren: 49:17

I know.

Glenda: 49:18

Sometimes it's making a decision because sometimes having to found managers or leaders that just get stuck in over analysis of a situation Now, I am all for analyzing and researching and getting and getting feedback from different groups and I'm all for that. But there's there's only so much time that you have. Like you can't just sit on making a tough decision forever Because then bottlenecks happen and all sorts of. Then you lose credibility because then you can't, then you're a leader or manager who can't make a decision Right.

Glenda: 49:49

So it's not just making the right decision, but it's making a decision.

Warren: 49:54

And you know what, if you make a bad decision, more often than not, if it's a bad one, you can backtrack and fix things. It may not be the easy path but you can, and if you recognize what you're working on, you can. You can fix things. Nothing I mean very few things in life are permanent. We're not doctors that are messing up a surgery or anything. We're HR folks.

Glenda: 50:16

Or HR adjacent folks or HR adjacent folks.

Warren: 50:19

So yeah, it's, it's great. But so we talked about building the equity. But let's talk about spending the equity when, when it's time to, you know cash in because you're. You're building it for a reason and I hate to say the politics game. It's not an episode of suits or anything like that, where you're cut throat and succession Succession.

Aileen: 50:43

Succession dude. Update those references.

Warren: 50:50

I'm just catching up on suits, and succession is on our list. But, it's not all cutthroat, it's not all conniving. You need to, and I think, unfortunately, a lot of the zoomers out there think that that's how life in the world is, because they've grown up with keeping up with the Kardashians, they've grown up with all those other things that they or oh gosh, worse of them all is the I do blame reality TV for so much. I grew up in the 80s and-.

Glenda: 51:22

You know we're media people, right, you know our media people, okay.

Announcer: 51:25

I know.

Warren: 51:27

I'm not trying to be offensive, but these things that you see, these over the top actions in the real housewives and people, I think they start to ingrain that and they think that's how they are supposed to react. Oh my gosh, I didn't get this at work and I'm going to throw it to hisy fit and and get out of there. So it's really different. But spending that equity and not only the act of spending it, but what do you spend it on? Are you going to spend? I wanted a new human resource information system for our company. We didn't have anything to begin with and I was in a couple of years and then I decided it's time to cash in.

Warren: 52:07

I want this, and I went in, I made my case, I said what I'm going to do, I came in with ideas and not just I want to do this here's. Here's what I want to do, here's my options. This is what I'd like. The my number one option. This is how much it's going to cost and there really wasn't much pushback. When you go in Now, if I'd come in on day one, hey, I want to spend tens of thousands of your dollars right now. You can't do that. It's what you're doing, what you're spending your internal equity on. So yeah, it's, it's, it's.

Aileen: 52:38

I think that's a very good point and I was thinking through that. You know how the timing and how that works and how you can be strategic and when you do that. I will again share an example of when I did not do that. Well, I had recently joined, I wanted to mix things up and do things differently and I had a vision of what I wanted to do. And I remember you know there was a lot of resistance and you know, getting my team on board and we're going to do this. You know, campaign that's going to be different and it's going to be amazing. And we went ahead and did all that thing and I thought it was great. We all were behind it and we totally got shot down by the studio, like they were like no, they're like what? No?

Aileen: 53:21

And it was a really hard moment for me because I was leading people and I was selling them on my vision. They bought into it and then it's like the higher above's, just like we're zero, and I understood like my mistake was. I hadn't built my credibility yet. To be able to pull one like that, you have to start meet them where they're at. What do they expect? Deliver them two or three things within the realm of what they think could be, before you go out on a limb and say I'm going to take a risk here. So I remember meeting after with my team and saying this is on me. I am sorry, this is what happened. I took a risk. It did not work out. I did that before time and, interestingly enough, what I got from my team was them saying no, no, no, this isn't on you. We believe in this. But it was a misstep, like I miscalculated the timing. And then I did get that capital later, like 100%, but when I played it I was not ready.

Glenda: 54:18

But it's interesting because it goes back to what you were saying before, how you have different levels of equity with different constituencies within an organization. So you had been working so closely with your team that you did build that equity within them. So your direct reports, all their support and it's all the team that reported into you completely bought into it, but you hadn't yet built that same amount with the higher ups. So that's when it goes back to Warren's point of emotional intelligence. That's where you have to know okay, what do I have to spend? How much have I banked with my team? Okay, I got them Check the box. Do I have enough banked with the other people that I now need to sell this idea on? And I think that that's part of the learning process. I think that's part of being mostly intelligent and being self-aware enough for you to measure your own equity and how it is vis-a-vis everybody else you need to deal with.

Warren: 55:12

I was going to say exactly that knowing how to measure, having a self-awareness. Not everybody thinks you're the greatest thing in the world all the time and you might think you have the most confidence and everything like that, but you haven't built that equity. And to think in HR, we see it when it comes to performance reviews, these people that rate themselves just the most glowing review, yet you've got two write-ups and a performance improvement plan on process. So something is not equating. This equation is not working out here, because they just don't have the self-accuration to say, hey, maybe, maybe I'm not doing as well as I think I am, and that's that gets so fresh. It's personally frustrating cuz I want to teach these people. Hey, you know what you know. We didn't write you up for no reason at all. There's some valid reasons and things. It's just knowing people like that and seeing how people Just can't self actualize is really, really disappointing. I wanted I had a little story of where I had a failure I had applied with the company was internal promotion position.

Warren: 56:21

I applied, met all the criteria. I thought I was a shoe and I thought, hey, got this in the in the bank. And then the vp of hr finally had a meeting with me inside hey, I want to talk to you about that you're, you want to move up and take this position. And she put it out there Point blank to me, because she knew me is the audience. You said I would love to put you in this position.

Warren: 56:45

Here is my, here's my problems. I had a negative reputation because I didn't always follow through on things and maybe I had some Communication problems in terms of being short and curtain communication and my approach fullness was lacking it. But she told me these almost verbatim, those type things and what you in effect, was saying you don't have the political equity and I'm not gonna spend my political equity to put you in there. But I I really did appreciate that conversation cuz it told me exactly what I need to do for next time and it was a pill to swallow. But I didn't have that political equity that I could. I could take that position and so it was. It was a tough conversation. Sometimes we need to have those tough conversations that yeah, and learn and grow. So, yeah, well, I know we've gone longer than expected even less and longer than feathers was able to to make happen today, but don't get us, don't get us talking about something more.

Glenda: 57:49

And because we are Passionate people, I love to talk about all of these topics, because you know what I think in, in having these careers that we've had, having all these experiences to be able to share with people, you know the good about the ugly of what we live through. I think other people can you know, learn and relate Like you. Just, you know the story you just shared about your experience. That's, that's tough, right, because you're, you had to sit there, listen to this feedback and admit something to yourself that maybe you weren't ready to hear. But at the end of the day, you learned and you know.

Glenda: 58:21

I think that that's the approach we take with everything, because, at the end of the day, if you are open to feedback, if you are humble in your approach of you know what I may not know it all all the time If you are positive, if you're supportive and if you want to continue to learn, I think all of those things, in addition to everything you listed out I think you're gonna be in a really good position to be somebody who's emotionally intelligent, somebody who's gonna be able to build and maintain cuz that's the other thing. Right. We've talked a lot about building it. Once you've built it, you gotta maintain it. So you gotta continue to deliver on all that reputational you know, ability and all the skillset that you've told people through your actions and through your experience that you have. You gotta keep it. So that's the other part it's kind of hard.

Warren: 59:08

A little misstep, even if it's inadvertent. You can lose all your political equity if you do, oh yes, some one little thing bad. You have to If you want to move up in the world. You have to play the game, as you mentioned earlier. You have to play the game. You have to think a step or two ahead and sometimes you are gonna roll the dice and hopefully you you have the emotional intelligence to say this was a good gamble and say it was worth it. Even if you lose sometimes it's worth it. It can still be worth it if you lose. So it little collect what he is just. I really would like to see some PhD or something like that go in, do something all along this and lines in the workplaces. I can sure second find it while doing some research for the topic, but it didn't spend as much time as I should have.

Glenda: 59:56

Do you want me to throw a couple of stats, cuz I lean and I we have a lean. Say it say, say the jingle.

Glenda: 1:00:05

It's time we love our stats on surfing corporate warren, so I had to find something. So I had to dig deep and try to come up with something that would tie into our topic. But you know, as you've been talking about building credibility and building, you know, your personal equity and all that, I think it all ties into trust. That's one of the big words that everything ties into. And when you talk about trust and you work in HR, you're an HR professional who's into the trades and I'm sure you read a ton of publications.

Glenda: 1:00:36

But there was an article that we found from 2021. It was in human resources director magazine and it was all about trust at the workplace. And they did a study, they did a survey. Actually have like a thousand plus people.

Glenda: 1:00:50

Sixty four percent of employees say that trust has a direct impact on their sense of belonging at work. Like, imagine the impact of more than three, almost three quarters of your, of your workforce. If there's no trust, they don't feel like they belong in an organization. And then the other big data point that I found super interesting was 58% of employees surveyed said that a total lack of trust affects their career choices, with 24% of those people having left a company because they didn't trust the people in the organization or the organization itself. That's a huge amount of people.

Glenda: 1:01:29

If you think about it. The emphasis on trust is now like really a business imperative, right? It's not even like, oh, let's have a trustworthy workplace. No, now it's an imperative Because now that we have four generations of people working in at and any single organization potentially talk about being productive, being being having a psychologically safe work environment all of that when you add all that up and it adds to a trusting environment where people feel they are in a place where they feel safe. So I thought that that was fascinating.

Aileen: 1:02:02

And the newer generation to Warren's point before like the zoomers, what something really positive that they bring is. They are expecting purpose and meaning and action and not just fluff words like on the mission statement and vision statement. They really want to belong to companies that own up to what they say and that requires for them to trust that these leaders are doing what they're supposedly going to do and they hold them to. Our generation wasn't as tight on those kind of things, like we went to a job but I don't know. But it wasn't like what do they believe? Like I don't know. That wasn't my case. I love my job, but I wasn't questioning the bigger, broader purpose, this these younger generations really are getting behind Speaking to and speaking and finding a company that speaks to them and they find value in. So they're they're pushing that a lot more, I think.

Warren: 1:02:57

And I personally should on zoomers a lot today. But I will say they've brought a lot to the workplace. That the work from home world. You know you speak telecommuting I'm going to tell commute today, but it wasn't a work from home, it's. I've got something going on. I'm going to work remotely today, but they've taken it to the next level and they've shown that we can. The world can be successful on that. And one of the biggest things I think the zoomers have brought to the workplace is the I don't want to say the discussion of mental health issues. We didn't in the workplace, we didn't touch that one. Now I do think some go way too far. I don't want to hear what your therapist said. I don't want to, I don't want to know all that stuff. But mental health in the workplace is something that was neglected completely until Four or five years. It really hasn't been that long. But the zoomers have brought that to the workplace.

Aileen: 1:03:58

Who goes to?

Warren: 1:03:59

the and we all benefited from that every, yeah, everybody benefited from the these three things we just discussed, so it's not all negative, it's it's adjustment and the one thing In terms of little click, what he talked about building to your audience. Well, zoomers want us oldies, me that are turning into geezers quickly, to sort of Be able to communicate at their level, but they don't want to come communicate back at our level or even a boomer level. It's, it's difficult because it's you just need to do. It's a two way street. I really hope they will appreciate that more, that, hey, I'm dealing with Lauren and he's he's a 40 something. No, I must have the 40 something's very quickly, but he's he's a Xer and that this is, this is his life and this is you know how he, knowing the audience, what you have, and I think that's what's going To distinguish the most successful of these, these groups coming out, that then from anything else. So, yeah, yeah.

Aileen: 1:05:04

I think both ways. It's about openness, openness to learn from the others and being curious. I it may sound new agey, and but I really, really think there's so much value from the next was, like us, what we can learn from Gen Z, but the same the other way around, and I know like the joke is to make, oh, my boss, can't, you know, convert to PDF? And they weren't. Well, yeah, and and you can't do a ton of things that they do. And it's a different generation and we have different strengths and we can all learn from the strengths that we each of us have.

Aileen: 1:05:37

So, if we all have that mentality, I think, instead of us versus them, seeing what is the common ground and what can I learn from this person that has lived a completely different experience and I have that would lead to, I think there's so much possibility having all those generations working together at this time, post COVID. It's a matter of nobody is better than the other. What can we learn from the other? And that sounds very new? No, I think, and it's a great way to tie everything together, warren.

Glenda: 1:06:05

This has been so much fun. Thank you so much for having us so.

Warren: 1:06:08

I am just ecstatic when you all accepted my invitation and I hope to have you all back again. This has been a lot of fun. So we usually like to leave things off with the best practice. My best practice today will be subscribed to surfing corporate on your favorite podcast player. You will not regret it. And my little disco, my little outro is the. My intro and outro. Music is the underscore, with the double. The double in the voice artists is Andrew Culpa. Want to thank them both for the music. As always, I'm Warren. This is feathers.

Glenda: 1:06:42

I'm Aileen and I'm glad the package is and we're helping you survive HR one.

Warren: 1:06:47

What the fuck moment at a time.

Announcer: 1:06:50

Yay, thank you.