Shorty #12: Bad Job Titles Make You Impotent

Shorty discussion on giving job titles vs paying people.

Transcript

Announcer 0:02

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Warren 0:17

Alrighty, welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals who want to help you get through the workday by saying all the things you're thinking, but say them out loud.

Feathers 0:27

I'm Warren. And this is Feathers. And I'm not drinking bourbon tonight, sadly.

Warren 0:32

Sadly. Oh, it's just water. Or is it?

Feathers 0:37

No, it's just water. That'd be a whole that'd be a whole mess of vodka. If that was vodka, I'd be Yeah, that would be bad.

Warren 0:43

Yeah. Can't do vodka straight. No. It's a great mixing. Yeah. It's a great mixer, but not. So we're going to just have a shorty episode for you all today. It's been a little while since we've done a shorty, but yeah. But before we get started, as always, got to thank Hallie, the original JDHR rock star for supporting us on Patreon. You can do that too. You can leave us a review or tell a friend or engage with us on social media, send us a story, something along those lines. Or even ask, come on, if you got a great story, sell it to me, and I will get you on the air. Tell us it yourself. So, anyways, sell it to you.

Feathers 1:21

I like that.

Warren 1:24

And you know how solicitors do with me now.

Feathers 1:27

That's not that's not just what I was thinking. Yeah, great. So yeah. You're telling how much you hate solicitors. Now you're saying, hey, sell me a story, we'll put it on. Yeah, but okay, let's go.

Warren 1:36

If it's something I'm interested in, something I want, yeah, you know, I'm in for it, but I I don't need a new HRS every day. I don't need a new payroll system every day. I do not need 800,000 staffing agencies every day. So, anyhow, to go down that road. So today I just want to take a few minutes in this shorty episode. There's a lot of buzz in the world, LinkedIn and other places, world about giving employees inflated salary, or excuse me, giving employees inflated titles rather than giving them maybe a salary they deserve. And there's some pros, there's some cons that can backfire on you. So I want to sort of dive into that a little bit because I can I see multiple ways with that, because sometimes a job, they know they're just your springboard to bigger and better things. They know for whatever reason that dare I say, they actually know that they're only going to get you for three to five years, if even nowadays, and you're off to bigger and better things, and they want to facilitate that for you. They want to help you with that. And so rather than getting an awesome salary, because if you you don't have the experience necessarily to do it, they give you a cool title. So you with I'll I'll my daughter, who was our host, co-host a few episodes ago, she this exact same thing as you got hooked up. She got she got hooked up, graduated from college in May of last year and is now director. Had to replace a word, and she has a nice, flashy title. She has she's 21 years old, and she has four employees all in their 40s, so she's already intimidated by all four of her employees being in their 40s. She's supposedly likes them, but it's like here was a line she gave to me. I don't know how to manage people. And I'm like, nobody else does either.

Feathers 3:39

So what so I mean she did fine at our Telgates when she was hanging out with a whole bunch of 40-year-old shit men with men with lots of libations, so I think she can handle people that hopefully aren't hopefully aren't drinking. I mean, I don't know, maybe they are.

Warren 4:04

And she is, and it's not something she was seeking, but in the in this job, she she likes it. I don't see this once again being her forever job. I think I see it as being a springboard to bigger and better things. And just seeing all these articles on LinkedIn, seeing her situation that she's in, and maybe to a degree I got that as well. Was after 10 years of recruiting, my next job after all the wonderful fun recruiting titles was assistant director and of of personnel when people used to call it personnel.

Feathers 4:38

But showing your age, Warren.

Warren 4:41

I didn't create that title, but I got assistant director, and I had virtually zero journalist experience. So it was a good title. The salary was okay. I didn't have nothing to complain about, but nothing to you know do give flips over either. But so I I had a little experience with that as well. But it seems to be a growing trend now because they're trying to land people to come and work for them, even if it is for a short time. Hey, we can't give you the you know the fat salary, but here's a uh a nice salary. Now, here's the thing that employee now has been director of whatever you want to call for two years, and they're hopping. They've got two years of experience in this director title. Now they're coming to your company and they think they can be. Where do they go from there? Really? How can I tell you when I went from assistant director? My next job after that was manager, and and then after that was actually a generalist before I worked my way back up to manager. So I I don't with two years of experience, what's going to happen to those people? Are they going to be? I mean, I, you know, I'm very cynical if you didn't know about job titles, period. But a lot of people hang their hat on those titles. And now are we going to be in a situation where we're making up new titles? You are grand too ball of human resources, because you started as a director when you were 21 years old, and now you can't you don't have anywhere to go. What what exactly happens? And is is this a a wise strategy? I I really don't think so. Because what's going to happen where if you're starting or your your early career and your director, your vice president, your whatever you want to call when you're already what what what the hell are you at that point? What where do you go?

Feathers 6:41

Yeah, I I I kind of like it's it's exciting for her to have a director title at that age, but it's also that thing, like, okay, now 10 years later, well, you've already been a director, right? Yeah, and now it's like, are you titled out of something because they think that you're overqualified?

Warren 6:58

Very well. But I I would hope, I I would hope that a manager would be able to look, okay, you had this title, but you have two years of experience. You have five years of experience. You you are not a whatever you'd call it, dude. You are not a that's not really your level. And I think it's gonna make the the titling game is gonna be forever screwed up now, because it is on, according to LinkedIn at least, it is an ongoing rampant thing right now to be just throwing out these these titles and and and giving people and then you know what do you do? How does salary come into play and with it as well? Because ultimately you gain your experience, you need more money. You gain you you always live up to your your salary. So if you I could I could make double my money tomorrow and I'm still gonna be living the same as I'll be spending twice as much. And yeah, everybody does that, especially urban career. You you're you're driving a crappy car or you know you're you're living in an apartment that maybe isn't your favorite place to be because but it you can you can afford it. But what how do you move up? How do you move up from there? And what is what can what can be done? I don't know. It's gonna be interesting to see in in the next 10 years, and yeah, I'll still be I'll still be working in 10 years.

Feathers 8:22

I'm like 20 years, I'll still be working.

Warren 8:25

Yeah, I'll I'll I'll still be working in 20 years. HR is not the field to go into if you want to hit the chitching there. So yeah. But there is for an employer though, what is is there a downside if you're an employer, you're an HR person, and you're now hiring these people with limited experience and giving them these awesome titles. Does that create an internal equity issue with your current employees? Hey, you just hired this 21-year-old kid, you know, two weeks ago you couldn't buy their own alcohol, and now they're a director. What the what the hell is that? I've been here for five years, and you know, it I think internal equity is gonna potentially take hitting. What do you oh well you're super senior director and you're extra special senior director? You're you're double secret vice president. So it's I just don't know. And it's a shame that we have to resort to that. But titles are an easy thing to give out. Who gives a rat's ass? I've told the story before. A partner in a company, I hired one to hire uh uh a neighbor's son, didn't have a lot of experience, and just told me, hey, I hired this person, I'm the recruiter, and I I hired this person, so make the rest happen. I'm like, fine, getting information. What what title are they gonna have? He says, I don't give a damn. Call them in utility infielder. And believe it or not, I put utility infielder in the HRIS. I mean, that was his title, Utility Infielder.

Feathers 10:00

Like, yeah. But that's awesome.

Warren 10:02

As an in chart, yeah. But yeah, it and then for work org charting and comp comp, you know, salary surveys and comp. Maybe I know a lot of industries, HR folks will share with their competitors, not by name, but salary ranges were you know, survey comps. And you know, how how do you match what this is? You can't look at it and have uh a good match when you start playing these games. I I just see so much potential downside, but without a lot of upside to it. Yeah, you get someone and they're gonna be happy for oh look at me, I got a good title. But if if you don't have the company that can back it up and you're only intending to keep them a couple of years, I don't know. It's it's been a mystery, so I was hoping you would have some answers for me, a wise one.

Feathers 10:58

No, because I want to call everybody Grand Poobah. That's every time I'm like on something and they're like, well, the internal title can be this for like the HRS, and I'm like, externally, and I'm like, it's always Grand Pooh. Like they're or Grand Pooh Bah or head cheerleader.

Warren 11:15

Oh, oh, speak of tr well, not exactly. I was on a sales call once, and this person's title was senior evangelist for their their product and company. I'm like, don't you dare try and proselytize me. I don't want and I did I see that title, and I'm just like, that is the stupidest title ever. And I, you know, sales and HR come up with the stupidest titles, and that one is probably a little other chief chief happiness officer for an HR person. Those two, chief evangelist and chief happiness officer.

Feathers 11:52

I would like I'd like to be the chief happiness officer. That'd be fun. Especially since I've been told I can be smug. There's resting bitch. I mean, like, there's the resting bitch face, and I think that I have the same equivalent of it sometimes, especially in meetings. I've been told that I'm an extremely hard interviewer because I showed nothing. I'm just so stoic on the face, and like I'm like, I don't know. So that'd be awesome. Interview. I look like a pure asshole. Here's my card. I'm the chief happy officer.

Warren 12:25

This is how happy you can be. Or I should say, this is how happy you can be too.

Feathers 12:29

Come work for us. But I mean, like HR titles are the worst. I mean, HR titles, it's you could be like a director of HR and be a one-person shop that has like 25 employees. And then you can work for a company that has 50,000 employees and you're a I'm thinking like a title much lower than that, but you have responsibilities of even higher than a director.

Warren 13:00

Oh yeah, exactly. I've been there. I've you know, when I was uh assistant personnel director, my responsibilities didn't didn't match what I've my responsibilities as a generalist once upon a time. And then my first full director job, my responsibilities probably less than well, I I got replaced by an intern. So that's how shabby, how deep my responsibilities were. So it it it really these two. That's one of the best things I've ever heard. Well, I I you know I left voluntarily and I advocated for her to take the position of like, you don't need me. You you can save yourself a hell of a lot of money, time, and headache because I'm a big pain in the ass if you hire someone to hire her rather than me. So yeah, that's that's about it. So yeah, that's that's really all I have for today. I'm gonna continue to contemplate the the title situation. And then hey, all if you have I'll put some something on Instagram here. Let us know your thoughts on title versus salary, especially. See, now I can't use this clip because you're yawning in the middle of it for Instagram. So but I I want to know your thoughts on title versus salary in the comments below on Instagram. Let us know is I really think HR and businesses as a whole can do a lot better than what we're doing with these titles and and just paying people with a title, because I think of just setting them up to leave essentially is you can't have longevity with that, my my personal opinion. Or I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe maybe somebody out there will convince me I'm wrong, and I will do a full mayo copa on air here with this. Because I I my believe it or not, feathers, my philosophy on certain things has evolved even over the last couple of years. Bringing your whole self to work is one area where my my mindset and my thoughts have changed. So I I still don't want you to bring in all your workplace or your at-home drama. I don't want to know about your your kid who can't get paroled and you know whatever else is going on awful in your life like that. But I do have a better appreciation for bring your whole self to work.

Feathers 15:21

I just can't wait to pour a cup of coffee. Well, found out I was impotent. Oh shit. Okay, all right. Well Yeah. But oh, I think you should probably talk to AP. Not me.

Warren 15:37

Yeah. Oh gosh. I I've never, I don't want to have a conversation like that. And but people don't want to share way, way, way too much. Give me the the least information, amount of information, especially if it's medical, that I need to know to do what I gotta do. And if I need to know more, I will ask carefully ask what I need to know. But I don't want to know, whoa.

Feathers 16:03

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Warren 16:05

So I just came up with an awesome title for this podcast. Thank you, feathers, for inspiring me. Are you impotent? So no, job tit bad job titling can make you impotent. Oh, there we go. Oh as we're doing it. Anyways, we're we're publishing tonight after about an hour after we finished recording, because it's uh yeah, we're we're not ahead of schedule at all. So, anyways, there will be no intro and outro, so I don't need to thank the underscore orchestra or Andrew Copa. Actually, Andrew Copa is a voice will do the uh had you actually heard email. Other than that, our best practices today.

Feathers 16:48

Just just don't do it, period. Just don't talk to me about real don't talk to me about your life. I don't want to know. Yeah. I'm not your therapist. I'm not your therapist.

Warren 17:03

There, that's a best practice. I'm not your therapist. And as always, I'm Warren.

Feathers 17:08

And this is Feathers.

Warren 17:10

And we're helping you survive HR one what the fuck moment at a time.