Job Deal-Breakers, HR as profit sucking overhead and the Truth About SHRM Certifications

Ever found yourself staring down the rabbit hole of job hunting, wondering what deal-breakers you won't budge on? Join Warren and CC this week as we spill the beans on the core principles that steer our job selection compass. Crack open the conversation with us as we reveal the red lines we simply won't cross, like micromanagement mayhem or companies with reputations that make your skin crawl. CC bravely shares the jitters surrounding maternity leave, especially with an employee engagement survey looming overhead. It's a no-holds-barred session on workplace non-negotiables that you can't afford to miss if you're navigating the job market.

Pull up a chair for a round of job transition tales that range from laughably bad to downright soul-crushing. Our banter on past gigs—like the water park with more drama than a daytime soap, to that manufacturing job with expectations as stable as a house of cards—will have you nodding in solidarity. Plus, we don't shy away from the delicate dance of airing out workplace grievances on social media; expect some eyebrow-raising anecdotes and a shared cringe over what can unfold. This chapter isn't just us rambling; it's a mirror to those all-too-common career quandaries we face, painted with a broad stroke of humor and hard-earned wisdom.

Capping off this rollercoaster chat, we put a magnifying glass over the glaring job red flags we've learned to recognize, and we're pulling back the curtain on the HR field's love affair with certifications. Is a SHRM badge the holy grail of expertise, or could a quick Google search trump a framed certificate? I candidly confess why those four letters no longer grace my LinkedIn—and it's a reveal that might just shake up how you view professional credentials. Whether you're contemplating the benefits of being certified or simply curious about the world of HR, this episode packs a punch with insights you didn't know you needed.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Had you actually read the email, you would know that the podcast you are about to listen to could contain explicit language and offensive content. These HR experts' views are not representative of their past, present or future employers. If you have ever heard my manager is unfair to me. I need you to reset my HR portal password, or can I ride up my employee for crying too much? Welcome to our little safe zone. Welcome to JDHR.

Speaker 2: 0:51

Music. Welcome to JDHR, the podcast by two HR professionals who want to get you through the work day by saying all the things you are thinking, but say them out loud. I'm Warren. I'm.

Speaker 3: 1:00

CC All right Back again.

Speaker 2: 1:03

So it's been crazy week we were talking off air. I haven't done a lot of show prep, but I think we can wing it pretty well.

Speaker 3: 1:14

We got this. I believe in us.

Speaker 2: 1:16

I think we got some good topics. I can't take us through, but before we get to those, we want to thank our supporters. We have Hallie, the original JDHR rock star, and Bill, who support us on Patreon. You can be like them and go to Patreon and support us, and also just go to Apple, if you're an Apple listener, and leave us a review. Those are so helpful for us, helps us grow, helps other people find the show and yeah, so please do those things. And all the links are in our show notes. Yay, so anything fun happening in your world.

Speaker 3: 1:46

The last two weeks we recorded let's see, we were pretty nursery together, so non-HR related.

Speaker 1: 1:57

Those are fun times.

Speaker 3: 1:58

Oh my gosh, I am a little overwhelmed because I think I have eight more weeks left until my due date. So time is creeping, creeping quickly actually quickly, it's not creeping, but yeah, with that I'm also planning my maternity leave, which is giving me a lot of anxiety. So you know, there's all that. I just have to make sure everything's prepped before I go, and the fun part is is like we're doing our employee engagement survey right as I leave, so I get to hand that off to somebody.

Speaker 2: 2:30

Well, that brings up something we didn't even talk about, but preparing to get prepped to leave for a near-case maternity leave. It's so funny how life works in that you don't understand all that somebody does do or does not do until they're gone, because they know how to keep that skeleton buried. If it's something they're not doing, or you know something they think is just second nature, they're just doing without any thought or anything. And next thing you know they're gone and oh my gosh, what do I do? I don't know how to do this. And or, oh, what the hell have they been doing? They've been sitting here twirling their thumbs and you know how are they? You know you don't know those things until someone's gone.

Speaker 2: 3:13

So, prepping to take a leave, even just with vacation, not a long maternity leave, but that gives me anxiety is I want to make sure all my eyes are dotted and my T's are crossed that when I leave, everybody's happy because I'm coming back. I like I'm heading out the door and, sayonara, you're never going to see me again. I don't want those people to think poorly of me when I come back or while I'm gone, like, oh, that's when you find all the interesting stuff is when people are on leave, that's yeah.

Speaker 3: 3:46

It's so. It's so tedious to track everything too, like I find myself having to do because we're also doing performance check-ins while I'm gone, so I have to go through document what email is going to get sent on what date, documenting like what the verbiage is going to be in the HRIS, just documenting all these things, and I'm like this is just a lot and I'm afraid I'm going to miss something. So thoughts and prayers wish me luck.

Speaker 2: 4:11

So we'll see what happens. We just finished celebrating Valentine's Day and you've heard some interesting things about Valentine's Day and I think you made a good HR twist on it. So go ahead and fire and let's see. What have we got there.

Speaker 3: 4:26

Yeah. So I was thinking there's been so many podcasts about like non-negotiables in relationships, like when you're entering a relationship, what's a red flag and what would you like say absolutely not to. So in that vein, I was thinking like what are the non-negotiables or the things like, if you're looking for a job or if you're interviewing, what are the things that if they were not able to offer, you'd be like absolutely not. I'm withdrawing, goodbye, yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:57

When you mentioned that, I've been trying to think of some things that would be non-negotiables. I think if it had excessive travel, for me that would be a no-go. But I don't know, working for a company that has a sleazy reputation, I can deal with maybe a mediocre reputation or things like that.

Speaker 2: 5:22

But if it's like they're one of the Chipotle's or something we're always talking about online. That is screwing things up if they have just a sleazy reputation. I'm trying to think of things that would be a complete no-go for me. I've worked in not one, but two industries I've never thought I would end up working in and honestly, one of them I was biased against before I got in there and ended up being pretty good for me and good overall, but I went in biased but I was like oh, so I learned, I grew. What are some of your non-negotiables?

Speaker 3: 6:02

Oh, so I have two major ones and I actually used these when I was looking for my next role at work, when I was looking for what ended up being this job. But the one for me is I could never work for a company that was so strict on time in time out.

Speaker 3: 6:23

Oh yeah, like, and it had a bunch of clock watchers. I could never do that. And I know we're like, oh, we're so past that now, but I worked for one of those companies only five years ago. Like, they're still there. So, yeah, it was very like. It was very weird because I was a salaried employee, but it was like you come in at work at eight and you cannot leave before five and everyone takes the same one hour lunch break and if you come in at eight oh, five or eight 10, you will get a talking to. So it was just like I can't do that, I cannot, so I will not do that.

Speaker 2: 7:00

Well and some of these things that would be non-negotiables. You're not going to know until you're in the door, like micromancer that's. You know if someone micromancer. The times I've left companies is a lot of times due to what I at least felt was micromanagement or just being under someone's thumb a little bit more than I wanted to be. But you don't know that going in but I we're talking about time in, time out.

Speaker 2: 7:25

I have a horrible I don't know if it's a horrible story, but I did not handle it well as not a HR person. Well, maybe it was a HR person too, but as a manager I had an employee I shared with another manager and this this manager was and I had been there for years before and my employee that was sharing with them I never cared. They come in when they come in, they go when they go. As long as everything's done, I don't care, you know, if they, if they're leaving at quarter till and something's not done, then we've got a problem where we're going to have a discussion. But otherwise I yeah, I've never cared and it never happened.

Speaker 2: 8:04

Well, this other manager was like bam, you have to be ready to go at, you know, start time. And it was just, and because we both supervised them, it was a difficult situation because that was a push button issue for the other manager and I didn't give a crap at like that. Things were done, that's all I care about. And then, when it came to evaluation time, I let the the other manager sway me a little bit on my thought process of the evaluation and kind of regret that, because I should have said no, you know what. They do a good job, and that's your problem, that you don't want. If it's 901 and they're not at their desk working, you're having a connexion, so I don't know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:52

But any other non-negotiables in there.

Speaker 3: 8:56

So like it's funny because you said, okay, so I agree with you. One of these things you don't know until you walk in the door. But I have been lucky enough to kind of pick the brains of people who've worked there, because I kind of know someone who knows someone who works there and I always ask, like what's the culture like? Tell me. So luckily, like with things like that, I think you can always kind of turn some rocks over and connect with people and figure out like how it really is. Another one, and it kind of leads into my next one.

Speaker 3: 9:26

We have a company here who's kind of big, but they don't. They're up just to say I'm their Western Southern insurance or whatever, but they now I don't know if they're still this way, but they still have people dressed in like suits to work Like it's a full business, formal situation. And I will not do that, like I don't care how much money you pay me, I will not. I think they just got really liberal in the past few years and they're letting women not wear pantyhose. So I just I can't, I cannot.

Speaker 2: 10:06

Oh, speaking of being dressed business formal, I worked at a law firm for some time and dress code was suit and tie every day and like twice a year you could pay like $25 to wear jeans because it's going to some cause or something. A few times there, maybe more twice, and you know what. At the time I thought it was cool because I was coming from. They called it business casual, but it was nice slacks. But now I'm shirt and a tie. That that was their business casuals. You didn't have to wear a jacket, but that's another thing. Business casual definition is all over the place, but that was their business casual. I didn't mind it. At the time I thought, okay, this is cool. But working the law firm, okay, there's two worlds in the law firm. You have the partnership world and you have everybody else world.

Speaker 2: 10:57

And I once had a non-partner level employee come into me weeping that a partner said something horrible about the way they were dressed. She was wearing a pantsuit and it was like Capri length and the male senior partner said something about that not being appropriate for work. And I'm like, I had no problem with it. It was stylish, it was. It was cool, you know it's, it's, it was, you know, in style then. I don't know if it would be in style now, but I think it was in style then and she was like my hands are a little bit tight. I talked to some other partners ask, okay, what's going on here? And another partner said we'll take care of that. It's been like okay, whatever. Hr did not enter the partnership realm of things there, but it was. I didn't mind the dress code, but it was. It was interesting, to say the least.

Speaker 3: 11:51

I cannot do it because I can't do it because you're not client facing, so or like not everyone in that building is client facing.

Speaker 2: 12:00

Right.

Speaker 3: 12:00

So why do I have to do it? And it's like I'm the kind of personality where I don't want to be told what I can and can't do, but I have really decent judgment. Like, hey, listen, if I am going to go see an external facing client or if I am going to be meeting with the CEO that day, yes, we will dress up a little nicer, but if I'm going to sit at a cubicle, I am not dressing business formal. It's stupid. Don't make me do it.

Speaker 2: 12:28

Exactly, exactly. Well, you sort of led me into we talked about a little bit earlier, but you knew you had contacts at other jobs that you can ask questions and ask around what's going on to this job? Why do you like? Oh, I just thought of something that's a non-negotiable sort of goes where I'm heading with my mind has there, if it's like, been a turnover city there they're always advertising for this position and that's going to be non-negotiable. If I see it all the time online that that's going to be a problem for me. So, anyways, it was. But going where I was going, you know people and you ask around hey, what's about this job? I asked someone not an HR about a company they were working for as applied, and I didn't know at the time that they did not like their job. But they told me you know good things, oh yeah, yeah. And then I came out later to find out that they did not like their job, but they didn't know what to say with that. That's the worst. But so I've had two situations, one quite a while back and one very recently. Someone asked me about my former jobs and wanted to know a little bit about it and if I'd recommend it to them, so I've probably told the story on the podcast a long ago.

Speaker 2: 13:48

But many years ago I was working at a company. I was on my way out and one of my very good friends who the job economy was pretty bad then Was looking for a job and asked me hey, is this your job? I said, yeah, I'm leaving. And so, yeah, this is my job. And they asked me about it and I gave them. They're one of my best friends, we worked together another place prior to that and I gave them the total, complete scoop. I gave them credit where I would buy, let them know where. You know where the landmines were there.

Speaker 2: 14:23

And one of the reasons I left is I had a management. I decided to leave the head of management change and I wasn't. I wasn't going to fit in with that group anymore, but she needed a job She'd been looking for a little while. She applied and the manager sat there while, while interviewing, put his feet up on the desk, his head behind the, his head with pit stains. She was just like saying to the pit stains made her want to vomit In it and she he talked about himself the entire time, didn't ask her anything, was talking all about himself and and she's like, oh my god, this is worse than I thought. And Without really asking a question, she knew she stayed there to interview. She knew, okay, this isn't for me, but they offered her the job they didn't talk to her about. She said they didn't talk about the job to anything. He talked about of self for about half an hour, talked about the company for like 10 minutes and that was it. And I was like, yeah, I can absolutely see that they offered a job. She did not take that job. So that that's a one situation where I've been asked about a job.

Speaker 2: 15:33

More recently and this is funny because I just had seen the job posting on LinkedIn myself a place I worked. I Worked there when the company was just one year old and I was already their second HR director and I lasted for one year and it was just it was a water park. I'll go ahead and say it, it was water park. Not that was bad or awful or anything. It just wasn't for me. That was not my environment, that was not the best place for me. But I left. Someone else came in. They only stayed a year and that's halfway, because of COVID is the following year they didn't open and it laid off all but two members of the management team. But each year since then it's been Every year and I got asked by someone tell me, hey, I saw this job is open and when I I Didn't notice it on LinkedIn earlier and I went in I looked at a little bit more and this time to calling it a HR manager, office manager, like yeah, that that tells me a lot of what they think of the position.

Speaker 2: 16:38

But the fact it's been turnover after turnover after turnover. Now my intern ended up taking the job after me the following year after she graduated. And you know, you didn't need someone 20 plus years of experience. You needed, you know, that intern for that job, someone who can really better to the teenagers and things like that. And had it not been for COVID and they didn't open the following year, she'd probably still be doing there she's. I think she had all the talent in the world to do it. But yeah, just saying these the job again and again and again. And you know I like said it was fine, it was okay, I mean, but it just wasn't for me and had it been a, I don't know if I could say it. Maybe it's just hadn't been for the damn teenagers. I there for a while longer but that's hurting cats and I just I did not. I did not like that. No, you mentioned you'd had been asked about a job for other people. What do you have any horror stories with that?

Speaker 3: 17:40

You know it's funny, I am probably the most honest person you will ever meet. So, like when it comes to jobs, I will be either the company's biggest advocate or like their biggest like whistleblower when it comes to certain things. And I did work. I worked for a company. I have a lot. I have a lot of feelings about the story because there's like I Don't know.

Speaker 3: 18:02

I used to work for a manufacturing company. I Left, so before I well, when I had left, okay, so I had left, they were. They hired me on as a talent management and org development person. So I took the job as it was explained to me in the description, as it was explained to me in my onboarding and all this stuff, and about six months in I was like I'm not doing any of the things that I was hired to do. I am recruiting. So I kind of became their full-time recruiter and I hated it. And then every time, you know, I would try to build the things I was brought on to do. They were just kind of stuck in their own ways, very traditional. I think my boss was very forward thinking and he was very supportive, but I think the leaders above him were very like HR is profit-sucking overhead, like just, do you think like just hire people? So when I had left, I left a little Cremugend, but because I worked there for like two years and then I was like I can't do this anymore, I didn't get hired to be a recruiter, but I did so the the one cringy thing I will say that I did. I Looked back on it and I'm like we're never doing that again.

Speaker 3: 19:19

I went on my Instagram, the boozy HR account, and I just did a post and I didn't name them for who they were, because I'm very careful about that, I like to be very respectful and that matter. But I did talk some shit. I then I Don't know who found out, but someone on the floors of like the manufacturing floor figured it was me, like they figured it out and they took that Instagram post and they printed it out and they plastered it all over the manufacturing floor. So then I get this, like I'm at my new role, and I get a phone call about Two months later from the owner of the company and he calls me and he's like hey, yeah, he leaves like a very innocuous message like call me back, I just want to like talk through some stuff, and I did, and he basically charmed me into taking that post down, like so I'm like, okay, I'll just take the post down, realize, after the fact, like he kind of he was kind of like schmoozing me in a way of like hey, listen, you're very smart, we're sorry to have left you, I'm thinking of maybe hiring you on as a like doing some Contracting work which you'd be interested in.

Speaker 3: 20:34

That, by the way, can you take that post down? And then I did my never heard from him again. So I'm like, so then, anyway, someone I used to work with that if another company saw my posting For the job that I had left and vacated, and then they were like, what do you, what do you think about it? And I'm like, no, stay, no, walk away.

Speaker 2: 20:58

Like. So with my person I was very honest. I told him everything. I told him what I liked, I didn't like, but yeah, you know. But if someone's hard up, or and I want to say these were hard up, but they, they need to work, they needed to, I mean, that's, that's hard to do. You know, I want to encourage them, I want to, I want to I don't know Support them. I want to. They're a friend, you know, you want to help them out, but yeah, but I think being honest and telling them, hey, this sucks, oh, might be the best help for them is. You know, nobody wants to get into a job and hate it. I think everybody can relate to that, that you've been in a job that you absolutely hate and you can't wait to get out and Don't want to set someone up like that.

Speaker 3: 21:43

I think it's like I worked with the person who had called me, like we were on, we had worked at a former company, together on the same team, and Knowing her and knowing the company, knowing where we came from, knowing where she wanted to go with her career, I'm like this is the wrong move for you. Do not do it. Stay away. There will be other, better positions. Thank you, goodbye.

Speaker 2: 22:08

Yeah, that's just a tough spot to be in. But yeah, I would hope that someone tell me, hey, stay away, stay away. I mentioned another place. I I went to an industry I wasn't hot on and when my no-go's would be bad reputation and a lot of turnover Okay, I've mentioned a couple times in 2011. I got laid off twice.

Speaker 2: 22:29

After the first time I got laid off, I see I've seen this company hiring and hiring. They've been not very good in the past. This they always have this position open, a HR manager position and so but you know, I was not in a position to be terribly choosy, so I applied and it was pretty much exactly what I thought it would be. It was. It was rough, it was bad, it was HR was treated as a secondhand citizen and it was. It was.

Speaker 2: 23:03

I could see exactly why the turnover was. I could see Exactly why the company had the reputation they had, which they're not in business anymore, but it was eye-opening. But everything that said that you shouldn't work here but you know, got laid off and you need to paycheck was nice little paycheck. Things happen and I took it and it. I did learn a lot from the job, but I also just didn't like the industry, didn't like the company, and the man drew who hired me. He got laid off like Just a few weeks after I started on the car. That's not a good sign. And then the CEO took over as the head of HR, so all the HR management team had to report to to him, and that was that was a mess too. So yeah, red flags are out there for a reason, people.

Speaker 3: 23:56

Everywhere and pay a cent to them.

Speaker 2: 24:00

Yeah, I mean I, I would even take a lesser salary if I had a, if I Was like an awesome job, a cool, awesome dream job, if that I Could take. I think most people take a lesser salary to have a job you truly enjoy and your passion about and your interest and what you want to be doing. I mean that makes up for a lot, even if it's with I don't know I, you know, I wouldn't say and I I've been to two places with not the best reputations. I don't know if that, that reputation, I don't know if that could, if it was a dream job in a company has a bad reputation. I don't know if I could do that. So it's all about some game better. You know, do your pros and cons list. Your SWAT analysis is, if you're sure I'm certified you've heard all you've read about SWAT analysis out the yin yang or it's that you need.

Speaker 3: 24:53

You really need the serum certification to fully understand that concept.

Speaker 2: 24:59

I don't know how many questions and the immaterial in general they just put on SWAT analysis and I'm glad I'm never going to get another certificate. Oh, I, I don't know if I mentioned this last podcast. Maybe I did, maybe I did. But Dan from HR Dan space has his own podcast, corporate pizza party, and they were talking about it having the shirm certifications. And After listening to it as I can now, I took, I took the the certification letters off my name on LinkedIn. I still have the certification badge. But now I'm like, yeah, that's I, it's more important for my company than it is for me and I won't use 90% of the things that are in the, the shirm certifications. But yeah, but I took them down. I was like, yeah, I agree, it's beyond time for me to have done that. Anyways, I'm not, I wish it. Or shirm was a neutral Body. I don't think they're neutral anymore. I think, no, really deviated the past now in a five plus years. So Anyhow.

Speaker 3: 26:03

now I'm curious Do I have mine on? Let's see, I'm like, I'm just I, because I don't know if I do or not. No, I don't, hey, eat that.

Speaker 2: 26:13

I have my little certification medallion down at the bottom where I have that, but I don't have this. Oh, speaking of shirm certification, you know you get your certification thing after you certified. Then I recertified last year and like every month there's so many things you want a new certificate there. They want to charge you like 45 bucks or something like that to get. It is something I'm like no, really, if I paid that much money to get the certificate a be Renew it each year or every three years, I should say Send me a piece of paper that costs you less than a dollar, for Christ sake anyway.

Speaker 3: 26:49

Yeah, I hate to be like that. I sound like a hypocrite, because I mean, you're right, shirm is just. There's such a money-making scheme right now and they're just whatever like.

Speaker 3: 26:58

It's so stupid, but like there are pockets of people who think it's impressive. So so I don't, it's right behind me, you can see it, and that it's just. I just keep it there because I'm like. I just feel like it's a stupid game sometimes where someone will see it and be like she knows what she's talking about and I'm like little, do you know? I know nothing about what I'm talking about, but I think $300, so we're good.

Speaker 2: 27:25

Exactly, and I think not only the shirm certification but all certifications in general. They show that you can study for and pass an exam. They don't show you no material because For what I do, the shirm certification, I'm not in a union environment which is probably 20 ish percent of the information and then the rest I would say 25% is just completely not relevant, no matter what the hell you do. And the rest has some varying degrees. But you've got Google. I'm not gonna have to know what you know what year the Davis Bacon Act passed, I don't care, nobody cares, I've got Google. That's not gonna help me in my career.

Speaker 3: 28:09

So Especially with chat GBT, like now, really now Google's, google's antiquated.

Speaker 2: 28:17

Yeah, exactly, but I will say I first I removed all social media from my cell phone. If I want to use social media, I have to either be on my laptop or my tablet, because I was just trying to purge myself of social media. But I went on and I I ignored one of the HR groups and then I jumped back in it. Oh my God, people, why do you go to Facebook to ask a question that you could Google the answer to? Oh, when do I have to get my EEO one done? You know? Google it, people. Or when? When are 1095? I've seen some of these questions. Google it just people. If it wasn't my real name on there, I was thinking I'd give them other due December 31. I would just have with them just to just to do it, and I've got the letters behind my name. So I'll be. Someone will think I'm talking, See don't you're talking about?

Speaker 2: 29:17

Yeah, but if it wasn't my, maybe I'll create a fake account or something like that. But I was like I was in it for like five minutes I said, nope, I'm done. The Facebook HR groups there. If I want ammunition for the show, yeah, I can, I'll go to one of those. But you know, we had no agenda today and hey, I think we've done pretty well. I know, right, I know.

Speaker 3: 29:39

Have you ever been in those comment sections? Because those get ugly sometimes and then sometimes I'm like I'm really happy I don't work with you on a team, Like people go at it in those comment sections.

Speaker 2: 29:53

And it's funny to say, reddit. If you go to HR subreddit, people are generally well behaved there, but Facebook gets the Wild Wild West. It's like people get nasty and I'm like why? You know why? You have nothing to do better than press someone. Like I said, if it wasn't my real name, I would have answered some of these questions just the most stupid way I could have. But I don't want my real name on on some of those answers I wanted to do. But yeah, it gave me.

Speaker 2: 30:25

I got five minutes in Created a dummy account.

Speaker 3: 30:30

Created a dummy account and just like cause some chaos and just see what happens.

Speaker 2: 30:33

Yeah, no, it's not worth, not really worth my time there. So Well, that is, I think, going to wrap us up for today. Best practice is going to be I haven't thought of anything.

Speaker 3: 30:49

I don't either Watch out for red flags. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 30:54

Red flags, no surfing Getting the water. Yeah, so that's all we got for today. Our intro music is the underscore orchestra double with the double, and then the voice artist is Andrew Colpa doing our intro. So thank you very much to them. What's good? Thank you to Hallie and Bill, our our Patreon supporters. Follow all the links on our show notes for ways to support us and a lot more. I did play with our link tree not that long ago, so there might be some new stuff on there, so check it out. Otherwise, as always, I'm Warren.

Speaker 3: 31:31

I'm CC.

Speaker 2: 31:33

And we're here helping you survive. Hr one. What the fuck moment at a time. Yeah.