Can't Pronounce bow-luh-nayz, But We Know Our Effn Forks

Bold claims and shocking revelations - that's what this episode is all about. Brace yourself as we scrutinize Miss Manners’ overstepping her expertise to provide baffling HR advice, leading to a heated discussion on why professionals must stick to their forte. Witness the truth behind her erroneous advice on video conference etiquette and her disastrous suggestions on dealing with an overly perfumed co-worker. An entertaining but insightful reminder - Miss Manners, keep to your lane!

The conversation takes a turn as we delve into the profound significance of constructive feedback in the workplace, drawing inspiration from a recent outburst by Nick Saban. Distinguishing between getting chewed out and receiving constructive criticism, we explore how HR professionals navigate through situations when employees misinterpret feedback, shedding light on the need for self-awareness. As the year draws to a close, we touch upon the common yet stressful HR end-of-year updates, sprinkling in some thoughtful reflections. Tune in, learn, laugh, and think with us in this exciting episode!

Transcript

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Job Advice

Andrew Quilpa 0:02

Had you actually read the email, you would know that the podcast you are about to listen to could contain explicit language and offensive content. These HR experts' views are not representative of their past, present or future employers. If you've ever heard my manager is unfair to me. I need you to reset my HR portal password, or can I ride up my employee for crying too much? Welcome to our little safe zone. Welcome to JDDHR.

Warren 0:48

Welcome to JDDHR, to podcast by two HR professionals who want to help you get through to work day by saying all the things you're thinking, but say them out loud. I'm Warren and this is Feathers. Alrighty, so we're going to a bi-weekly recording, like we said in a previous episode. I get this. While you were across the country and I was driving back from across the state, I attempted to record a solo episode using the app and I recorded it and I never even got to the point where I had it, downloaded it or started to even try to edit it. So I'm thinking that will be, if it turns out to be 25% decent, that might go on our Patreon feed for Hallie and anybody else who wants to be a Patreon member like that, just to spice it up a little. But yeah, I tried. I had an article that got me a little fired up and I've ranted on it for a few minutes while driving eight hours across the wonderful state of North Carolina. So that's what I had. As I mentioned, we are going to a bi-weekly schedule. So if you missed us last week, just be looking for us to the I guess, like November 1st. I don't have a calendar for me Somewhere right around there.

Warren 1:59

We'll have another episode out again, but today I've got a few stories to share, and the first one. It didn't have a title or, excuse me, an author associated with the article. It came from JD Supra, a law blog on 1013. And it was just attributed to the law firm of Constagde, brooks, smith and Profeet. I hope I'm not butchering that too much as the author, but they don't like Miss Manners. Apparently, basically, the stick of this article is for Miss Manners to stay in her lane because recently she's been giving some HR advice to some of her readers or writers or whatever you would call them. Yeah, so they gave a few examples here. So one of the opening lines of the blog is gentle readers of this blog, please do not take your employment law advice from Miss Manners.

Warren 3:02

Here's the proof, exhibit A. Miss Manners states it is rude to have your camera off during a video conference. And the writer went on and just butchered that. One line I took out of it was Miss Manners said the letter writer should clearly communicate which meetings required on-camera presence and which did not. Okay, then she said some people might not come on camera even after being asked to do so, true? Then she said that people should explain why they were off camera, and that was disrespectful for someone to explain that they weren't on camera because I don't wish you to see me in my curlers. And then she wrote people still wear curlers, but I don't have that problem. So exhibit B. But they did talk about some ADA issues. You know, someone who may be hard of hearing needs to read the lips and that's obviously an exception, but, just generally speaking, not a problem with must-be-on camera To be.

Warren 4:05

How do I deal with a co-worker whose perfume gives me an asthma attack and seizures? And this time the letter writer, who worked in a mental health facility, had asthma that was triggered by strong fragrances. She was fine with most of her co-workers and patients, but there was one therapist who wore strong, obnoxious, heavy perfume that the letter writer was afraid was going to cause her to have an asthma attack, which sometimes in turn caused her to have seizures. In addition, the letter writer had visual impairment and could not always see the therapist coming. Her aroma preceded her, if you catch my drift. The letter writer asked what to do, and this is so funny the odor issues and the. It's a typical HR issue, but Miss Manners did indeed butcher this.

Warren 4:54

Miss Manners advised the letter writer to talk directly to the therapist and they say bad advice number one. And to lie to the therapist, bad advice number two. She said to tell the therapist that patients had complained about her perfume. Then Miss Manners said this will make it a question of patient care and not of her potentially putting you in a hospital. Okay, miss Manners, are they right? And then the letter writer gets fired after someone of authority finds out that she was reporting bogus complaints from mental health patients. Great solution, why didn't I think of that? But it gets worse. Miss Manners understands that this technique will not help people who do not have patients, customers or innocent people to target in this way. But the basic idea to shift blame of the perfume to the reaction. So that's it, and basically it ends with staying your fucking lane, miss Manners. They write Miss Manners, if you stop giving employment law advice, I'll stop giving advice on how to use a dessert fork. So if you're going to Miss Manners, which one's the dessert fork? I?

Feathers 6:02

think it's the one on top of the top.

Andrew Quilpa 6:03

Yeah, that's what I was going to say I think it's the one on top the smallest one.

Warren 6:07

Yeah, the smallest fork. See, we have cooth. We know the right forks, are you sure I know us.

Feathers 6:18

I know us, at least I know me pretty well.

Warren 6:22

Yeah, that's a debatable topic, but I don't have I don't go to bougie restaurants like that where they have multiple things. Honestly, I don't go out to eat much anymore. Anyway, I feel I can cook more and I can cook better myself. Then I get it 90% of restaurants. I don't want to wait or pay an excessive fee for a quote. Unquote good restaurant.

Feathers 6:44

So Well, it's not my restaurants. Really quickly, I had something interesting happen to me yesterday.

Warren 6:49

Was it.

Feathers 6:49

Chipotle? Oh no, it was not Chipotle. I saw some family members that I haven't seen about 14, 15 years, oh boy, and they were telling me as we ate lunch yesterday it was the first time they've eaten indoors since the pandemic. Wow.

Warren 7:07

Are they from a more heavily stricken area?

Feathers 7:11

Go ahead and say what state, what's our favorite state? Oh?

Warren 7:14

favorite state? Is it a?

Feathers 7:19

new Jersey no, that's one. New York Nope, that's two. Come on, oh, fucking California, California, okay, california.

Warren 7:27

Yeah, I remember the meme in California they couldn't eat inside but they put these like plastic tents over tables on the outside, on the patio, that you could eat in because you were outside, even though you were fully covered in the tent. That was too much, but unfortunately COVID's making its presence known again doesn't seem to be as awful as it was. But it's on the comeback.

Feathers 7:55

Just in time for a 19th booster.

Warren 7:59

I gave up on the boosters a while ago, anyways, so this one-.

Feathers 8:05

You're like your annual flu shot, get your booster.

Warren 8:08

Yeah, I'll be getting that shortly, actually. So this comes to us. The story comes to us from Morgan Smith on CNN, their section called Make it. It's dated October 16th and not all career advice is good advice. I meant to start off by saying this is not too jaded. It's actually something I've preached to my children all the time and it's actually really good, in my opinion, employment advice. But anyways, the old saying says if you find something you love, you'll never work a day in your life, and it goes on to say that creates a yeah, if you find something you love, like a winning lottery ticket for $2 billion you'll never work a day in your life, but basically you'll have a dream job.

Warren 8:56

It's stress-free and da-da-da-da-da. But Tiffany Boyd, who's McDonald's Senior Vice President and Chief People Officer in the United States, tells people to ignore that advice. She says people always say what do you want to do in your career, but if you get an opportunity, she says that's not your dream job. You'd be surprised how many doors it can open for your career, whether it's learning new skills, exploring a new city, meeting someone new who becomes a mentor. It gives all these things that can happen just by saying yes. And she goes on to say well, how do you decide whether a job is worth taking? Stereotypical pros, cons, things. But she does say if this job would create havoc when your finances, personal relationships or mental health, it's never worth it. But if those aren't issues those issues aren't present in the job offers growth opportunities. You can level up your career. You should at least give it a shot. Nothing has to be forever, but you might surprise yourself and find something you love or really good at. But you never know unless you take a chance.

Feathers 9:56

And it goes back. Sounds like advice on love you never know until you take a chance.

Warren 10:02

This season on the Bachelor.

Feathers 10:04

What was that Abba song? Take a chance on me.

Warren 10:06

Oh gosh, Da da da, da, da, da, da, da da. Yeah, okay, I'm here for that. I know that too well.

Feathers 10:15

Unfortunately, I'm just a sidekick here, folks just a sidekick.

Warren 10:19

You trigger me, it's not.

Feathers 10:21

you complete me you trigger, me you trigger me yeah but no.

Warren 10:27

This is advice I've told my kids Don't say no unless it's something illegal, immoral, abhorrent in some way, shape or form. Don't say no. Get opportunities by saying yes. I'll give a personal example, without getting too specific. I was in a situation looking for a job and a situation came up with a company I was not thrilled about joining and yet I thoroughly enjoyed it. I learned it and I originally thought this would be a temporary landing spot for me on my next thing and I ended up being there for some time. But if I didn't say yes and I wasn't in a position to say no at that time, too much. But it does work out. You say yes and, like I said, unless it's illegal, immoral, if you're looking for a job, hey, this might not be ideal, but let's see what it's got and if something better pops up. People walk each and every day. So crazy stuff. But-.

Warren 11:29

My next story is really really. I read it this morning actually, and I had to throw it in here. This comes to us from the BBC and the. The writer is dear bail Jordan, but they wrote on October 16th and I'll just give the readers digest version of it the the short attention span theater, which is my mind. This person whose first name I would never be able to pronounce, but the last name is, I believe, fecatee. They worked at Citibank for seven years as a financial crime analyst. I think that's very important for the story. He's a financial crime analyst. He was fired and, as the Brits would say, sacked After submitting receipts for two meals on two days that were quote-unquote fraudulent. On day one, he ordered two sandwiches and two coffees. On day two, he ordered and I'm gonna butcher some words here pasta, pesto and blood, bolognese, baldi and yay sauce. There we go. Yeah, I'm not gonna crack you.

Feathers 12:35

I'm just gonna leave it like that and hope somebody's right now going.

Warren 12:41

There you go. What a fucking idiot. Yeah, I see I can say the word if I'm not reading it. If I'm reading it, it's like I Like I can sure. Yeah, reading is hard.

Feathers 12:55

Institution of higher knowledge so.

Warren 12:59

Yes, I did. But he the the sort of want to say that Citibank gives him I guess it's sort of like a per diem of a hundred pounds a day For allowance for expenses. So upon return, his manager asked him about his receipts and Mr Fakete said I was on the business trip by myself and I had two coffees because they were very small. He further stated on that day I skipped breakfast, I only had one coffee in the morning and for lunch I had one sandwich and a drink and a coffee in the restaurant. I took another coffee back to the office with me in a second sandwich in the afternoon, which also served as my dinner. The Person who got fired told city all my expenses were thin, the hundred pound daily allowance. If you could please outline what your concern is. I don't think I have to justify my eating habits to this extent. But it goes further. Citibank escalated the manner to matter to its security investigation department, which also questioned mr Fakete about whether he had shared the meal pasta pesto in Bolognese with his partner, to which he replied no. So he ended up getting fired over a Sandwich, a coffee and a shared pasta dish.

Warren 14:16

The judge in Great Britain wrote I found that this case is not about the sums of the money involved. The case is about the filing of expenses and the claim of the conduct. Expense claim and the conduct thereafter. It is significant that the claimant did not make any full and frank disclosure at the first opportunity and he did not answer questions directly. The judge added the claimant was employed in a position of trust in a global financial institution. I'm very satisfied. Even with the expense claim had been filed under a misunderstanding, there was an obligation upon the claimant to throw up and rectify this position at the first opportunity. I accept the respondent required a commitment of honesty from its employees. So a Sandwich, a coffee and Some Bolognese sauce, so that was cost the student's job. But I I Do agree with the judge that in it, if you're a financial Investigator, in you're doing things like that, what, what are you letting go by? What do you also consider acceptable when you're working at a financial institution? So I think that that plays a part in it. You know, I

The Impact of Constructive Feedback

Warren 15:29

don't know.

Warren 15:29

I asked once earlier this year actually accidentally used my company credit card to buy something personal and I realized as soon as I pulled it out, a little credit card machine. I was like, oh shit, you know. And I was like, can you cancel that, cancel that order? Nope, it's gone. And I was like, so, anyways, that that was interesting. But, and the first thing I did, I went straight to work to my boss. Hey, I was not paying attention. I was on the phone. Da, da, da, da put my phone, my the wrong card, in the machine and was not even paying attention. So, hey, certain positions you get.

Warren 16:03

I also think if he had just not lied, oh yeah, my wife came with me and we shared a coffee or whatever, and we shared breakfast, lunch, whatever this is, and things like that. So I Am going to try, let's see if I can do this On the phone. We use old-school recording so you can hear this. I'm gonna pull this up on my phone and then Edit it into the software, like we did that one time. I let's see if I can get this. And I'm sure every HR person has had the claim. My boss is yelling and screaming at me and being rude to me. I'm getting chewed out by my boss. Basically, that's sort of the long and short story of it. I'm singing to myself the You're welcome.

Terry Arnold 16:54

Let's see if I can pull this up, but he's going to give it to somebody. Hey, there I'm like, oh, oh, oh, it's me. So when he was saying that, I mean he was telling me the time of the blitz on the motion, and I know y'all seen like how many times I had to tell you, you know the word. But when he said that, it was kind of like one of those things that you just have to not hear how he's saying it, but you have to hear what he's saying. And I miss another thing when you look at it, as far as never knowing the cameras on you and being coachable, and I feel, like the relationship that I have with him, he knows that I could take coaching like that and it's hard coaching and when you choose to come here, you never know when he could chew you out, like people always say you should be worried when he's not saying something.

Warren 17:32

So that is Terry Arnold place for Alabama. Love Alabama or hate him. Love Nick Saban or hate him. He's talking about Nick Saban and Nick Saban got. There was a lot of social media interest. He comes off the field and Nick Saban is just honestly losing his shit at this kid and he is literally getting chewed out. I don't know how many times his HR person oh my bosses, chewed me up Now. I was like right there I saw that that's not chewing out or anything, and I think that that's. The kid has a great possibility and I think this is also another example. I think student athletes or athletes in general make great employees because they know the difference between truly getting chewed out or just being having constructive criticism.

Warren 18:22

And this article comes to us from Karen Michael in the Richmond Times Dispatch on October 15th, so I'm going to this is her LinkedIn post about the article and we'll just go read the entire thing. Imagine a college student being more mature than 99% of employees who get hard coaching or any constructive feedback at all. No employee should ever be chewed out or yelled out, ever. It is. It's not acceptable to be in an environment of fear, but employees are quite soft these days and tend to see people, but employees are quite soft these days and I see too many people that claim hostile environment when in fact the employee needs to look in the mirror. The employee received a coaching or warning because the employee's not doing what needs to be done in the moment. The coaching and discipline is a gift. The manager cares enough about the employee's career that the manager is willing to spend a few minutes to let that employee know that he or she is doing. What he or she is doing in the moment is not going to help them be successful. Unfortunately, that's not how most employees see it. The man should teach a masterclass on maturity and receiving feedback.

Warren 19:30

And yeah, if you saw the video clip Nick Saban is laying into this kid, it was on Sports Center and it's drawn like the social media. I always saw me Nick Saban so mean to this kid and the kid's like hey, I didn't pay attention to whatever Blitz package was at me or whatever. I don't know what the situation was, but he ate his lunch and I know it does happen in the professional environment. I know that there are employers who yell and scream and throw hissy fits, but the manager you know. But when the manager's just giving you constructive feedback and you think they're chewing you out.

Warren 20:11

No, and I recently had someone talking about a manager chewing them out. I know that manager very well. I would be hard pressed to see that manager chew anybody out for anything. It would probably give you good, constructive criticism but not chew out. So, yeah, that's something we have to deal with in HR all the time. Manager hurt my feelings. And if this kid's feelings aren't hurt after after that Nick Saban rant, then hey, good for him. So those are all the things that I lined up for today.

Stressful HR Updates and Reflections

Warren 20:52

Anything fun, interesting going on in your HR world.

Feathers 20:59

No, I'm either extra jaded right now or it's end of the year. Stress is starting, so you name it like oh yay, open enrollment's coming up, and then Not there yet and the reviews will be starting and this will be.

Warren 21:16

We're there yeah so I don't want to jinx myself, but this year our annual review is going.

Terry Arnold 21:25

I'm not going to say it but it's going Just stop.

Feathers 21:27

Just stop, yeah, just stop, yeah. I'm going to stop before I ruin it. It's not worth it, just stop.

Warren 21:32

I ran some reports just this morning and I was shocked, and in a good way. So when the HR person is shocked in a good way, that's something. So, but anyways, that's all I've got for you today. I want to thank Andrew Copa, the voice of our disclaimer at the beginning, and the underscore orchestra for the use of their music Double the double for intro and outro music. Our best practice for the day is Learn the difference between getting chewed out and getting constructive criticism, and dammit mismaners stay in your lane.

Feathers 22:12

So Makes you know which one. The salad fork is Not even the desert Salad fork is the most important.

Warren 22:21

No, I think you start on the outside and you work your way in, and then the dessert fork is the one on top.

Feathers 22:28

You're so connected, you just go.

Warren 22:29

So much for those comments, just yeah, but anyway, as always, I'm Warren.

Feathers 22:37

And sometimes I'm feathers, I don't know.

Warren 22:40

And we're here helping you survive. Hr 1. What the fuck woman At a time.