Career Advice, Job Fair Dress Dilemmas, and the Power of Compassion in HR

Ever thought a simple outfit could be the key to landing that dream internship? Join us as Warren hilariously recounts the epic saga of helping his son prepare for a graduation-required internship, battling through job fairs, and the ultimate showdown over the perfect attire. With Cece adding her witty yet insightful perspective, we navigate the generational gap in job search strategies and fashion faux pas, all while balancing parental guidance and youthful independence.

Have you ever wondered how genuine care can foster employee loyalty? We'll take you behind the scenes of college recruiting, the diverse paths within HR careers, and share the profound impact mentors have had on our journeys. From the rewarding chaos of the recruiting circuit to the delicate art of talent management, we unwrap the essence of compassion in the workplace. Discover how small gestures of understanding and flexibility can create a committed and motivated workforce, making a lasting difference in employee retention and morale.

Chapters

• 0:19 Career Advice and Dress Code Dilemmas
• 14:40 HR Career Aspirations and Maternity Leave
• 26:46 Employee Loyalty Through Care

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:19

Thank you, past, present or future employers. If you've ever heard my manager is unfair to me. I need you to reset my HR portal password. Or can I write up my employee for crying too much? Welcome to our little safe zone.

Speaker 2: 0:51

Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals who want to help you get through the workday by saying everything you're thinking, but say it out loud. I'm Warren.

Speaker 3: 1:01

I'm Cece.

Speaker 2: 1:03

Okay, well, let's just jump straight into the meat of our subject today, but before we do, I'm Cece. You all very much for your support. Also, while we were talking about supporting us, you can reach out and contact us. There's multiple ways in the show notes, but the coolest way is the fan mail. You can just send us a note through fan mail on the show notes real quick and easy to do. But there's other ways to reach us in that area as well in the show notes. So all right, well, let's go ahead and get started. So oh yeah, and you know, having adult children now and trying to say things like that to my own kids wouldn't listen a thing to me. But you know someone listening on a podcast oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:00

I'll listen to that. So you know, I've tried to give so much career advice to both my children and my son's about to get hit up for the big lecture. Oh, okay, here's the situation. One of my son's graduation requirements is that he has to have an internship and it has to be 480 hours. I was reading all the things and he's a junior now. So next summer, or he'll be a junior in August. Next summer is his last chance for this, and I went to the school's website and I found their internship job fair and I sent him all the information. I'm doing his legwork. I feel like a helicopter parent or whatever they call it, but I'm like you've got to get this done. Helicopter parent or whatever they call it, but I'm like you've got to get this done. And then he's like, okay, okay, okay. And then here's where my wife and I we fought the good fight. We tried our hardest, but we gave up. In the end we took him.

Speaker 2: 2:59

My son is famous for shorts and a t-shirt. Even if it's 20 degrees outside, he'll be wearing shorts and a t-shirt. Maybe he'll throw a hoodie on top of the sweatshirt and he goes to the school in the mountains of North Carolina where they get snow, and they get real snow occasionally or multiple times a year, and I can see him walk around campus in shorts and a hoodie and he won't wear the really nice North Face jacket we got him because it would be so cold. I doubt he's worn that a dozen times, but anyways, we took him clothes shopping. Okay, for the job fair, why don't you just get something like a pair of khakis and a polo shirt? I said you want to. You don't need to dress up and be all nice.

Speaker 2: 3:41

Oh, the fight ensued. You don't need to do that. You're just old and that's how people your age think. And people don't care what you look like. I'm like I said they do, and the people that are doing the hiring are my age and they're the ones who are making the decisions. Oh, I don't need to do that. And I was like look, just go to your career services, do what they tell you to do.

Speaker 2: 4:03

But we ended up we're in the department store and Belk here down in North Carolina. We're in Belk and we're like talking. I just want to get you a pair of khakis and a nice Polish shirt. That's all I said. You can wear sneakers with it. I don't care, wear sneakers. I see kids doing that all the time. But oh, no, no, no. And I said okay, and when my wife and I finally gave in on that argument but he did say he talked to career services and he said he would do what they say, so we'll, we'll see about that I got feeling we'll be driving he goes to school nearly seven hours away driving out there to take him to the closest mall to get him a pair of khakis and a polo shirt right before the night before the job fair. But I did tell him, if you get an in-person interview, you were dressing the way I say, how I say, and everything like that. So I'll let you do your thing. I said, but just remember, you're going to be walking around there and you're going to see people my age and younger. I mean, I, I I'm sort of past the recruiting age.

Speaker 2: 5:11

I liked recruiting. I did it for like 10 years and it was fun. But college recruiting is why I did specifically for quite a while. It was a lot, it was a blast, but I was always in a nice suit and tie and in most of the students then came dressed. Well, some were not, but I don't think they were serious about looking either, and maybe they were, I don't know. But I I just tried to explain them. And you're just old, you're, you're a boomer, and what do you know?

Speaker 2: 5:41

I don't know anything, you know I've only been been in HR for 25 plus. It's coming up on 27 freaking years, but yeah.

Speaker 3: 5:49

It's not the 1990s anymore, Dad.

Speaker 2: 5:52

Yeah, I know. So, yeah, yeah, but I want to see what I meant to go back to their career services website and see how they it was. Usually the career services will say how to dress, what to do for the job fairs and things like that. Yeah, hell, I might. I might just take a day pto to drive out there to go to his apartment the day of bang on the door.

Speaker 3: 6:14

Okay, I'm not going there with you, but I'm gonna make sure you're dressed like a respectable human being I would rather like my rule of thumb for anyone is you don't know who's sitting across from you in an interview. You don't know what kind of biases people have. Like you don't know what kind of like personal taste people have. Like you don't know if the person sitting across from you is like, yeah, jeans and sneakers cool. Know if the person sitting across from you is like, yeah, jeans and sneakers cool, or if it's a little more. You know why roll the dice. When you have the chance of getting a role, just play by the, and once you're in there and you prove yourself, you can wear whatever you want, as long as it follows the company guidelines oh, speaking of which we this we've never done this before we hired a high school intern.

Speaker 2: 7:06

The city of Virginia Beach has this program where you can sort of start taking engineering-type classes in high school and sort of direct your career there, and one of the things I have to do is get an internship. And today I pulled in and the high school intern the first one we've ever had and it's only because his parents are friends with one of our vice presidents. So it's once again, not always what you know, it's who you know, network, have your parents network even. But I'm walking in with him and he's wearing short sneakers and a polo shirt. I don't know if anybody's going to say anything to him, but that's not. Shorts are actually expressly prohibited in our dress code. The only two things that are expressly prohibited are shorts and camouflage.

Speaker 3: 7:51

I think, if I can remember, we don't have dress code issues, but I remember when I was recruiting, I used to like work on like the higher level roles for a very large company and it was for like like an SVP level of a huge retail brand. And she was coming from another organization and she emailed me and she's like is it okay if I show up fairly casual to the interview? And I was like why? Like, I'm just curious.

Speaker 3: 8:25

And it was funny because she was going to come to the interview straight from work because she was working on some like really under deadline stuff. But if she were to dress up it would raise red flags. So she was like I you know I'm taking this interview extremely seriously and, again, this is an svp level role and it's not her first time working in an SVP level role. So, like it was just funny that I was like you know what, absolutely don't worry about it like, and I actually had to go to all the interviewer, like all the people on the panel, and be like this is a situation like. And then I just had to be like we normally wouldn't make judgments like this anyway but in case you would.

Speaker 3: 9:08

So, anyway, it was funny. She ended up getting the job because she was brilliant and she ended up getting the job. But it was just funny that she was like I have to come fairly casual or else everyone's going to know, and yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:23

So she came in like jeans.

Speaker 3: 9:24

She was well-dressed but she was like in you know, dress jeans, I guess yeah and like, but not something you've heard of an interview.

Speaker 2: 9:32

I have two little stories about that. So when Patrick and I the original, my original co-host we work at the university and HR and IT were like we were both the redheaded stepchildren of the organization, so we bonded very well and they came over. Well, one of the IT guys came over and he was dressed in a and he's a guy who normally wears t-shirts and jeans and is very comfortable when he comes to work, let's say. But he came in this awesome suit, he looked incredible and he's in there, and I didn't know what was going on. I just made a flippant remark. I said oh, are you interviewing somewhere today? And he was. And he told me this after he did get the job. And he said you know, when you said that, I said yeah, I was interviewing. He said I felt like I said probably everybody else was thinking it, I'm just the only one who's going to say it. And but yeah, that was funny.

Speaker 2: 10:29

But when I left the water park to go to where I am now, the water park, especially in the winter, was super casual and so I put my suit in the trunk of my car. As I didn't want it in the window hanging from the thing, I laid it flat in the trunk of my car and I pulled over just on a side road, not even a bathroom or anywhere. I changed into my suit on the side of the. I pulled off the highway and onto the side road and got changed into my suit to go to the interview. Because I already asked, made the thing. Hey, I said I don't want to raise any alarms, can I interview after five o'clock? And they said, yeah, sure, that won't be a problem. And now I know that the president of the company, she, generally works till six or later every day, so that's definitely not a problem.

Speaker 2: 11:15

I was like so worried about asking that and things. But I just pulled over a side road where nobody's going to see me, jumpeded in my suit and I went to the interview and did well with that. So I was like, okay, but I can't fathom going to an interview not dressed in a suit. I don't. Hopefully I'll never have to interview again, but I just can't see not being in a suit. I see, even where I work, the younger engineers come to our company. I think most are khakis in a polo. That's why I was making that suggestion to my son. But some of them are even less than that, and sometimes they've done like your person that said, hey, I'm coming directly from work, I won't have time to go home and change or anything, and if they tell us that ahead of time, tell us that ahead of time, you know, or or something. So we're we're not judging you based on your, your greasy t-shirt or your oily coveralls, because you just come in from the job site or something.

Speaker 3: 12:24

So coming from the job site or something. So, yeah, just, it's just so stupid. I, I do like the okay, like we're. I know there's a game being played, but I don't have time to play the game like. I loved that mentality of it. Yeah, like, but it's also very stupid. Like it's the world we live in. I get it. It's very foolish that we make these judgments on appearance when interviewing but at the same time, knowing me, if I were to be interviewing, I would like to put my best foot forward and it's all part of your personal brand. You want to look the part, you want to feel the part. When I look the part, I feel the part and I'm more confident. So I don't know, I just don't know. I just I don't, I don't know, like it's delicate.

Speaker 2: 13:07

It is, and you know we don't hire too many kids fresh out of college, but I think, yeah, most of them have been coming into the Zoomers. If you will that, come in. They're coming in dressed nicely. Like I said, I don't remember. Very rarely do I see someone interviewing in a suit and I don't participate in interviews. I'm not one of those HR people that need to be involved in interviews. You meet with a technical person, you talk tech talk and I'll just live in my HR world and you give me your decision afterwards. If they have a question, bring them down to me. If they have a question about benefits or anything, bring them to me. I'll talk all day long, but I don't need to be in your interview unless absolutely you absolutely feel it's necessary.

Speaker 3: 13:52

So anyways, I love being in interviews. I love, I love, I love the judgment of it all. It sounds so mean, but I do, I love, I love. Like it's like a reality show. It's like, okay, all the candidates are here, they all give it their best, which one will get the rose?

Speaker 2: 14:12

Back in the days when you used to have more selection. It's like, hmm, this person has a pulse, they're qualified, they have a pulse, we're hiring them. They're qualified, they have a pulse, we're hiring them. Which, honestly, it should be more like that and less of the dramatics as well. But you know it's never going to be that way. People are people. They're going to be judgy, they're going to, you know, make comments.

Speaker 2: 14:40

I assume college recruiting you know the college recruiting season is not obviously all year long. So outside I would work with various career services, just getting my name out there and showing interest in some of the colleges we like to recruit from the most. So you know, it's brown nosing the colleges. So they'll send you. Oh, you need to talk to this person and I don't know how many students I got over the years. The college would call me and say, okay, I have this student. Can I give them your contact information? Oh, yeah, directly. Yeah, I'll take it.

Speaker 2: 15:12

That happened to me any number of times but it's because I'd go back and I'd do mock interviews with the students and I would I'd come, do speaking engagements and things like that in the off recruiting season and build our company's brand and things like that. But I did a mock interview with this kid and I'm glad it was a mock interview For a mock interview. He was like ridiculously nervous. I mean almost at the verge of a panic attack. He was shaking. I said okay. And then the last few minutes you're supposed to stop and give him feedback. And I said okay. I said I know you're nervous. The interview I said part of it is good because you want to show that this is important to you. If you're thinking whatever, that's not showing that it's important or means anything to you. So a little bit nervous is good. I said, but you've got to get it under control.

Speaker 2: 16:09

But then I also noticed he's you know men's suits the tab is on the collar. He, he was in his brand new suit and he had to take the collar. So I said, okay, you can remove this. I, I, I, I felt, oh, I felt bad for telling me I need to. And then you know, when you buy a suit, the, the tail pieces are come clipped together or not sewn together with one of those little yeah. And I was like, yeah, I'd get, get that done and I'll take that off and take the tag off. And he's like, oh my god, I said I thought it was supposed to be on there. I said no, no, no, that's the. That's just the brand label of the suit that comes off and things like that.

Speaker 3: 16:40

And oh, but but he's a thing like if you didn't tell him, someone may not have and he would, or you know he could look like a fool going into a real interview.

Speaker 2: 16:52

I like the kid and he wasn't in the profession my company was for and when you go to those mock interviews it's just sort of a cattle call. You don't know what you're going to get or anything like that. And he wouldn't have been in our profession. I was like you know, I have nothing to lose and nothing to gain either. So I talked I had, but I actually liked doing those things but it was a younger person's game. After 10 years of doing it it's. It's tough. You're on.

Speaker 2: 17:18

I would leave on a Sunday and generally I'd come home on a Thursday and I was in not crappy hotels but not the greatest hotels, and it was a lot of fun and a lot of and and other recruiters on the circuit we called it. You know you'd run into them again and again. You start making some friends with them and I know people got jobs from being in that recruiting network. But I wasn't looking at that time and it was a lot of fun, but it took a lot of effort and a lot of time and, yeah, recruiting is a different animal. I could not be a full-time recruiter today, could not.

Speaker 3: 17:57

I cannot, I do not, I do not have the patience.

Speaker 2: 18:00

I cannot, I do not, I do not have the patience.

Speaker 3: 18:10

So if you were not in L&D, what area of HR would you want to be in? Where else would you?

Speaker 2: 18:13

want to be. Well, I'm in talent management now.

Speaker 3: 18:16

Oh, talent management. Okay Sorry, but no, you're fine, you're fine. What area of HR would I be in? That is such a good question. No, you're fine, you're fine. What area of HR would I be in? That is such a good question. You know what? Probably in, because I've never done it before. I'd probably give the business partner role a whirl. Okay, yeah, okay yeah. The only thing I don't think I would like is the employee relations piece of it. Amen, because many of you are fucking adults. Act like it.

Speaker 2: 18:50

If you could only say that to some of these people.

Speaker 3: 18:54

Don't do stupid things and don't say stupid things. Just come to work, do your job, do it Be nice and leave Done.

Speaker 2: 19:05

Well, I can't disagree about employee relations. It's not my wheelhouse. I may seem like this gregarious outgoing person, but when people are doing stupid things I can't keep a poker face. I can't. No, I've had to do it and it is extremely trying on me. I would probably be like a benefits person. I don't know, I'm just really interested by benefits, for whatever reason. If I wasn't this generalist role, I'd be doing benefits, I think I don't know. Actually, one of my very first HR mentors. His goal was for me to get my CEBS and I was like, oh cool, Maybe that's part of my influence, of that. Oh yeah, I'll do that. But unfortunately he didn't last in the company very long. But I really got into thinking about about benefits. Then I was like that might be something, but there's no companies around here that need a dedicated benefits person Not really there's very few of them around here, I should say so my, my neighbor behind us, like right through that window, she's actually a benefits manager and she works from home.

Speaker 3: 20:21

But you know, I think I was talking to my, I was talking to my boss about this, like because we were just talking kind of a similar conversation of like all the different areas of of, you know, hr and he, for a very short time, about a year, he had benefits under him in the interim and I feel like I couldn't do that job because I would just want to give everyone everything. And at that point, like I understand, like you know, you can't give everyone because everything costs money. So you know you have to shop for basically giving people, not just like some, some places, the bare minimum, but like giving people something that entices them to stay to take care of their families, to do this while also being cautious of the budget. But for me, I'm like Health care for everyone. Just give it to everyone. You want a one-year maternity leave? Take it. I have too much of a soft heart for that to make those kind of judgments and also, being on maternity leave, I'm so sorry. Let me correct that, taking my FMLA leave.

Speaker 1: 21:36

Your unpaid maternity leave.

Speaker 3: 21:39

Right, my company actually gives two weeks of paid leave, but let's be honest, it's not maternity leave, it's FMLA. Like you're going to get the same protection if you break a neck, then you'd have a baby but whatever. But you know, three months I could have done an extra month, like honestly, and I think, for me personally, because you know I work for a global company, so we have some people in other parts of the world that they work for us, but they have different maternity benefits, which makes me very sad. Canada I see my colleagues in Europe and even India, and they like take a whole year off. And I'm like, cool, europe and even India. And they like take a whole year off.

Speaker 3: 22:23

And I'm like, cool, like this was a literal conversation I had, uh, with my co-worker, um, who is not US based, and when I told him I was pregnant, I was like okay, like just to let you know, like we got to get this project over the line because I'm gonna be pregnant, I'm not gonna be here. And he was like the look on his face was like oh my god, like we need to get this done. And he's like when are you coming back? I'm like I'm coming back in july and he was like, excuse me, and I'm like yeah, july.

Speaker 3: 22:47

And he looked at me. He's like why, why are you coming back so soon? And I'm like, oh honey, it's america. Like we come right back. So he just gave me this look of like oh well, I guess we don't have to rush, like you'll be back in July. But I like there is a piece of me, like I know there's like a lot of people. I have a friend who vehemently is like just because you decided to have a kid and be a breeder doesn't mean you get extra time off of work. And I'm like okay, like there's a bigger picture here, whatever. But I would like I don't think I needed a year, but I, I don't know, an extra month would have been nice. Like give me four months, that would have been fine.

Speaker 2: 23:27

See my wife. She worked for the same retail company for when both of our children were born and when she was working just on the as a line worker, I guess you'd say on a sales floor when my daughter was born and wasn't in management or anything, and you know she took her PTO for two weeks and that's that's what she took. And then you know, when my son was born, she was actually in management at that time and he took the same two weeks of PTO. She saved it up and actually she didn't really get two weeks of PTO. She got put on bed rest for my son so her PTO expired before she had the baby or anything like that. But I mean they were as supportive as they could, but you know they didn't have any policy and you know I would love to see companies step up and do more than the bare minimum. I love the fact that you get a separate. I'm assuming this your two weeks was a separate maternity leave versus your dedicated PTO.

Speaker 3: 24:33

But I think that's a huge step forward. So how it broke out was like you have your FMLA, fmla and then the rest of it is you know. You know it's how you get paid. So, like, I had my short-term disability for the six weeks and then after that I had two weeks of paid leave, so then that was the. That probably got to eight weeks and then I took the remaining pto, so it worked out that I could take 11 weeks. I took 11 weeks, I didn't take 12. But I could. I took my 11 weeks completely paid at that point. So it was, it was nice. But you know, I got to be honest with you, like, not, I'm not going to get too graphic, but I had a very easy labor and delivery, and I know that is not the story for everyone, right, no, labor and delivery, and I know that is not the story for everyone.

Speaker 2: 25:19

Right.

Speaker 3: 25:21

Oh no, like I sneezed and she came out.

Speaker 2: 25:23

Like that's kind of how that happened.

Speaker 3: 25:28

But again, like my experience is not everyone's experience and I know a lot of people who had to get had more traumatic experiences and had to get sliced open and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 3: 25:34

And you know, postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety are a real thing. Yeah, postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety are a real thing, and I just think that we need to just take better care of our employees when they go after a huge life change like that, because you know it's taking care like and this sounds so unjaded but when you take care of your employees and you give them that stability so that they can take a moment to take care of themselves, then they're going to come back and they're more present. Like it's very hard sometimes when you're like working and I mean my baby. Again, I have it very easy my parents are watching her while I'm at work, like but to sit at my computer and if she was in a daycare and being like a complete stranger is watching my baby, like I'm not going to be mentally present for any stupid PowerPoint I have to make, like are you kidding me?

Speaker 2: 26:24

Yeah, no, I, I absolutely agree with everything you said. I I I do think, regardless of who's in what administration, eventually United States will catch up a little bit. I don't see the Canadian 11 months of maternity leave or whatever. I think they get out there. But I see something changing. You mentioned you take care of your employees and you get good returns.

Speaker 2: 26:50

A while back, our company, we did something way above and beyond for one of our employees, and the president and I discussed that. I said, if nothing else, you just sort of if I will dare say bought a tremendously loyal employee because of what we did for them. You show that you care, you show that you're invested in or investing in them and you want the best for them. And I would hope they would remember that. And you know when times get tough or you're not having that good day, you know, but they were here for me when I needed them, you know, and that is a big difference.

Speaker 2: 27:33

Now, can every company do that? No, I'm surprised we did what we did, being that we're so small, I mean 170-ish employees. You know it's hard to do things. You know one-offs and I think it gets harder the bigger you get. But I was actually quite proud. We did what we did and, like I said, worst case scenario, we just bought the loyalty of this person, or at least in my mind. If I were in their shoes and the company bent over backwards, for me I would be. It's basically an employment, a one-way employment contract. I'm not leaving you, period, unless physically beat me or something like that.

Speaker 3: 28:13

Well, I think I, I, I think I shared I don't know if I shared, I might've shared this, but it was like, like when I I had a miscarriage, probably like three, four months into my role, and, um, I didn't know my manager like we're still getting to know each other, I'm like whatever. And uh, I had told him. I'm like, hey, just to let you know, um, I'm having a miscarriage. And he was, you know, he already knew I was pregnant. I let him know early, cause it was a 12 week miscarriage. It was.

Speaker 3: 28:41

But he was just like take the time you need off, like no questions asked. And I'm like, should I go into? Should I go into the HRIS and put down sick time? And he's like, no, like you just need to. He's like, forget about it, take the time you need. Like, forget about sick time, forget about PTO. You let me know when you need to come back. And I was like that response, right there, was like, oh, you're a good guy and you're a good person and this is safe. It's safe for me to be here. And I'm like I mean, we can all roll our eyes at, like the stupid things that we hear and say at work. But you're right, it is. You kind of just bought my allegiance of just being just something so simple to just be like no, come back when you need to keep me, keep me informed, but just you know, take the time you need.

Speaker 2: 29:28

Yeah, exactly Best practice companies do better, try better, do better, don't be judgy don't be judgy better we admitted we would be, but anyways don't be judgy and give more leave that's it all righty. Well, I think that'll give us all we need for today. So, as always, want to thank the underscore orchestra for the use of their theme song Devil the Devil, and Andrew Culpa, who is our voice artist doing the intro, as always, I'm Oren.

Speaker 3: 30:01

I'm Cece.

Speaker 2: 30:02

And we're helping you survive. Hr1 what the Fuck moment at a time, don't know where my mouse is.