From Baby Haircuts to HR Nightmares: Travel Tales, Office Emails, and Needle Fears

Ever wondered how a baby’s first haircut can turn into a hilarious adventure? Or what it's like to suddenly land in a Wyoming hospital because of a kidney stone attack during a road trip? Join us in our latest episode of Jaded HR, where Cee Cee and I share our personal mishaps and travel escapades, from wiggly infant styling to the scorching heat of Las Vegas, and even a surprise visit to the unique Up house in Salt Lake City. You'll also hear about discovering an extravagant local grocery store that puts my hometown’s options to shame.

Is BCC the secret weapon of office "tattletales"? Find out as we dive into workplace email ethics, sharing a spicy anecdote about a friend who got burned by a "Reply All." We break down when using BCC is actually helpful—like keeping assistants in the loop without sparking drama—and discuss how some companies are restricting email functionalities to prevent misuse. Plus, we share a challenging scenario from anti-harassment training that will make you rethink your communication strategies.

Ever wrestled with vendor management or been frustrated by administrative inefficiencies? We've got stories! From payment hiccups and life insurance snafus to the headaches of switching engagement survey providers, we highlight the importance of reliable vendor partnerships. Then, we move on to navigating difficult colleagues and meetings, offering tips to keep things productive and harmonious. Wrapping up, we reflect on the complexities of HR roles and stress our commitment to making the workplace better for everyone. Plus, a fun tidbit about our struggle with needles, despite the desire for tattoos! Tune in for laughs, insights, and real-life HR drama.

Chapters

• 0:02 Recent Travels and Experiences
• 11:16 BCCing and Throwing Under the Bus
• 20:03 Vendor Management and Employee Benefits
• 35:49 Effective Communication and Networking
• 41:07 Complexities of Human Resources Management
• 53:09 Needles, Tattoos, and Blood Drives

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Had you actually read the email, you would know that the podcast you are about to listen to could contain explicit language and offensive content. These HR experts' views are not representative of their past, present or future employers. If you have ever heard my manager is unfair to me. I need you to reset my HR portal password, or Can I write up my employee for crying too much? Welcome to our little safe zone. Welcome to Jaded HR.

Warren: 0:53

Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals who want to help you get through to workday by saying everything you're thinking.

Cee Cee: 0:57

But say it out loud I'm Warren, I'm Stacey.

Warren: 1:00

Right, so we have actually haven't recorded in about a month. It's crazy. We canned an episode so while I was on vacation, we had something to put out there for all of our wonderful listeners. So, yeah, it's been a little while and it's a lot of fun things going on since then. How are you doing?

Cee Cee: 1:20

Good, it's been a fun few weeks just getting some projects done at work and then the baby's doing good. She had her first haircut today. Awesome, but now like she has this weird, like our friend did it and our friend is a very good stylist, but I think there probably is different techniques for styling adults than styling wiggly infants. Yeah, so, her bangs are a little crooked. So Kevin and I have just been laughing all night because she, just she looks a little ridiculous in the most adorable way.

Warren: 2:04

Well, that's nothing. Wait till she's four or five years old and does her own bangs with the little Crayola scissors, or whatever.

Cee Cee: 2:13

Looking forward to it, yeah.

Warren: 2:17

Those are good days. So wow, Four months Crazy.

Cee Cee: 2:23

I know Thursday. Thursday will be four months, so when this airs it will be my baby's four-month birthday.

Warren: 2:31

Yeah, hey, it counts. So, wow, yeah, fun times. Well, I went and visited my 23-year-old out in Utah for a while and we had a good time. We spent besides spending time with her, she didn't get. She took three days off of work and then we entertained ourselves. The other days We'd see her. She arranged to work mornings so that we could see her in the evenings and stuff. But one of the things we did while we were out there is well, first, while in Salt Lake, we went to the Uphouse and there's this house in a neighborhood that looks exactly like and is painted exactly like the Uphouse and it is so cool. We drove by it and took some pictures and stuff like that. So that was really cool.

Warren: 3:20

We did some touristy things around Salt Lake and then we spent one day in Vegas and that's my first ever trip to Vegas and it was 115 degrees while we were there and we walked up and down the strip in that and I think the heat kept some of the lewdness down. Everybody, including my boss, was just forewarning me about all the lewdness on the strip and things like that. Now, we only went out during the daytime. We didn't go out at night, so we didn't have any of that. But I tell you, the sun reflecting off the buildings as you're walking up the sidewalk and it's already 115 degrees and the sun reflecting off the building onto you, it was like just being thrown into an oven. At times it was crazy, but we had a really good time with that. I into an oven. At times it was crazy, but we had a really good time with that. We saw I'm a Cirque du Soleil fan. I'm an absolute freak for Cirque du Soleil. We saw one show, one Cirque du Soleil show out there, and that was just. I have high expectations and it blew my expectations away. It was just beyond fabulous and, just like every other trip the Workman family does, it cannot be without its drama. So we drove all the way from Salt Lake City area all the way to the coast of North Carolina. We did it in two days and so we're driving day one, or I guess we're into day two. So it was three in the morning.

Warren: 4:41

I get a kidney stone attack in the middle of Wyoming on top of that. So I'm like, oh, this is in a day. Earlier I thought maybe I'm getting a kidney stone. Well, three in the morning, yep, it was definitely a kidney stone. So I'm like, okay, well, I'm getting my healthcare app, sydney, as we use Anthem. So we have the Sydney app and I'm looking for urgent care centers and none of them are 24 hours. And the closest one was three hours away as we're driving, and Cheyenne, and it didn't open till whatever time. Like, okay, we'll go to Cheyenne, we'll just tell her to hang out, and then we'll, and then we'll go to urgent care when it opens. And I'm like, and then a few minutes later, no, we're getting to Cheyenne and we're going to the damn hospital. So I spent a couple hours in the ER. I had a big old kidney stone and they gave me some meds and sent me on my way. So the rest of the day my wife had to drive. I was intoxicated, but because we got to the hospital at 6 am, we were out the door by 9 and we were back on our way. So we only lost a few hours that day of driving.

Warren: 5:47

And but yeah, you can't have a drama, free trip, everything. Something always happens. But I was telling you off there, when we were going around your neck of the woods, we discovered this grocery store called dorothy lane, and it is there. I've never seen anything like that before. It's like the bougiest of bougie grocery stores. You have now my county. We have exactly two grocery stores are both food line and they both suck overall. That's, if you want, you have to go out of, you have to actually drive to go to like a place that has decent produce or something like that. But this was like another level of cashiers wearing little bow ties and looking like they're wearing that tuxedo vest and bow ties and they serve you wine there while you're in grocery shopping and I'm like, yeah, that's how you walk out of here with a $500 bill because they get you sloshed while you're grocery shopping.

Warren: 6:42

But that was a really cool experience. We didn't intend to go there. We actually thought we were going to a coffee shop and bakeries. My son's friend from high school now lives up there and he said, oh, can we stop by my friend's place? She's at work at this coffee shop and bakery. I'm like, yeah, well, okay, yeah, we'll go ahead and do it. And I didn't know it was a coffee shop and bakery inside this mega bougie grocery store, but it was. It was an awesome thing. They had some things I've never seen there before. So while being a grocery store tourist wasn't on my list of things to do, ended up being kind of cool I love a grocery store tourist.

Cee Cee: 7:21

Um, yeah, we're excited for the one that's going to open up near us and I've never been so. When you said the bow tie thing, I thought that was adorable, but yeah, it's kind of a big thing, and when people have parties here they always bring like Dorothy Lane meats or Dorothy Lane baked goods and I'm just excited. Well, it's probably gonna be dangerous because it's gonna be so close. But, I'm so excited to go there.

Warren: 7:43

Yeah, you know, they're apparently famous for some sort of cookie, oh, and also some sort of brownie. We didn't get either of those. We didn't get either of those while we were there and they had the Bengals brownies on sale there, so we, but we didn't get any either of those. We've got some snacks and my, my son and wife got sandwiches from the sandwich shop. All I had was a coffee and yeah, it was just really interesting. Never seen a grocery store like that.

Cee Cee: 8:11

So anyhow, there's one for our Texas listeners. There's also Central Market and if you ever want to talk, bougie, Okay. That's the bougie one. You could go there and buy an ounce of black truffle for like $50.

Warren: 8:27

Okay, yeah. Now, speaking of being grocery stores, we're going all over the place here. My wife has been asking to go to Texas because she wants to go to an HEB. I don't know what's so special about an HEB.

Cee Cee: 8:42

HEB. So, Central Market is like the upper tier of H-E-B they're owned by the same company.

Warren: 8:49

Okay so.

Cee Cee: 8:51

For a second I got excited because for a second I thought you were going to say Buc-ee's, because that is like the ultimate grocery road trip tourist is a Buc-ee's.

Warren: 9:01

We've been to some Buc-ee's. I've been to multiple Buc-ee's. We've been to some Buc-ee's. I've been to multiple Buc-ee's. The first time we went to one, oh my gosh, driving the direction we were going to, interstate to get there, no traffic, but when we got into overpass you could see it was like lined for miles, people trying to get off the interstate to go to this Buc-ee's and it was ridiculous. And they're building one in Virginia, somewhere near Richmond, and I know they're building one out in, oh gosh, near Greensboro, north Carolina. I can't think of exactly where that is, but I've been to the one in South Carolina. I've been to one in South Carolina and where else have I? Gatlinburg, tennessee. I've been to those and they're they're cool, they're interesting. The food is pretty good. I had the brisket sandwiches there but damn, if you don't walk out of there spending $100, when you go to get gas in a sandwich and you come out $100, poor, I'm like what the? And that's not the gas being $100.

Cee Cee: 9:59

It was a problem because, warren, there was one exit away from me when I lived in Dallas, so like it was a legit problem. I never thought I would be the person to go and get my breakfast from a gas station. But there, I was, I was like breakfast, tacos and my coffee at a Buc-ee's on like a random day of the week I was there.

Warren: 10:22

It was a problem.

Warren: 10:26

Yeah. But my wife was asking when we left I came to go to Utah Can we go through Texas? I said we could. That's like that'll put us a day out of the way, as you're going like a U-shaped down South to Texas and then back up North. I said we can make it happen, but we decided not to. She wanted to try the HEB, but we'll have to. You know, I did promise her a trip to Texas and we can do the central market and HEB and let her compare those things. So wow, a lot of HR talk.

Cee Cee: 10:58

Well, you know, what's great about Buc-ee's is they really do post all of their minimum wages for all of their roles.

Warren: 11:05

Right there at the gas pump.

Cee Cee: 11:08

And they're actually higher than so. They pay their people well. So there you go. We brought it back to HR. We're good, we're covered, we're done.

Warren: 11:16

Before we get too far down the HR rabbit hole, I want to thank our Patreon supporters, hallie, bill and Michael. Of course, hallie's the original rock star. If you want to support us, the links are in our show notes. But yeah, hey, if you have any bougie grocery stores, put it in the. Send me a text link in there. Tell us what you're thinking of. Bougie grocery stores my wife can. We can be grocery store tourists at. I'd love to get your comments of that. And Food Lion does not count.

Cee Cee: 11:46

Food.

Warren: 11:46

Lion does not count, food line does not count, yeah, so anyways, yeah, I had, I only had a couple little topics for today and what? I'm going to drop a word, I don't think I'm going to use it. I've ever used on the podcast before and this is a explicitly rated episode, so I'll have no problem with it. But BCCing people first, it's a pet peeve of mine and a friend of mine got really worked up and was ranting to me about it that what had happened in his situation was somebody emailed sort of a tattletale type email and cc'd, bcc'd excuse me some other people and all's fine, until one of the bcc'd people replies all and now the gig is up, that there was a little tattletaling going on like that and okay.

Cee Cee: 12:40

Busted.

Warren: 12:41

Close your ears. Sensitive eared people. My friend now calls bcc'd bitchy, cunty, cunt. He's sitting there ranting in, pissed off, and I'm trying my hardest not to cry, laughing as he's saying that and and he was calling it the perfect Karen move and all this other stuff, and he's like you know, some people on his team apparently made a mistake. It's not an earth shattering, life ending mistake or anything like that, but they made a mistake and somebody decided they wanted to make sure that he knew he made a mistake and then see bcc'd other people, one of which a director level, decided to reply all not knowing I am assuming not knowing that they were bcc'd on this and not cc'd. So yeah, that that just really fired him up.

Warren: 13:36

But really, bc Singh is just such an awful. There's time and a place for it. But when you're doing it to throw someone under the bus which actually is something else I could rant on is throwing people under the bus, why do it? If you're going to say something, it's like say it to my face or say it in front of them. If you're going to say it, why don't you just include the director or whomever when you're saying that? You know your team screwed up and you know this is, you know, unacceptable. Da, da, da da. I'm just include them in the first place. But when you have to hide it, it just, I don't know, irks my nerves. I wouldn't. I I can feel for him and I don't think I think I'd be just as upset in his shoes. But if you'd probably just included the director of you know shit happens, you, you know, and he could be able to respond to, I think if it happened to me I could respond to it Say, yeah, I'm sorry, this mistake happened, we're correcting it, yada, yada, yada. But when you do that and include someone in BCC, that's just, I don't know, it's underhanded, it's cowardly. I don't know, I've been victim of BCCs before and I can absolutely feel it. I think you know I would if I, if I were manager in a company, I'd like outrule, outlaw BCCing. You know, in my company the reply all function is limited to certain people. Or, if you, group group distribution lists are limited to some people. So I can send a distribution list to any distribution group, including all, but like my assistant can't and other people can, so that's restricted. I would. I'm not a technical person, but I'm, I'd like to like lock down bcc unless you have special permission or whatever to do it.

Warren: 15:23

I have used BCCing, but it's just a and I've even told I usually will tell the person that's receiving hey, I'm BCCing you on this. I BCC my assistant on some things. I say, hey, I'm going to BCC you on this email, just so you know what's going on, and things like that. But it's not a rat out type situation. I want to make sure if I'm not there she's in the loop to some degree. But I think also some people will get butthurt if they saw her name on a CC. We were having some problems once upon a time with broker and I was BC seeing the president of the company as I'm dealing with this broker, so she could, you know, see exactly what's going on from my point of view and we talked about it ahead of time. I will include you on these. It was a bcc and so that's fine and things like.

Cee Cee: 16:12

So there's a place for, but I don't think I've oh, go ahead oh no, you go ahead oh, I was just gonna say like I don't think I have like remember the last time I bcc'd somebody I don't know, like I most of the time it's like after the fact, if there's something, and then I'll forward like the email chain to someone and just be like hey, like this is happening, like yeah, I think I think I shared on the story when I did like what is it anti-harassment training? And like one of the scenario it was an out-of-the the box training because I'm not touching making an anti harassment.

Cee Cee: 16:44

I'm like screw it, it was an out of the box training and I think one of the scenarios was like someone who's transgender is being like bullied at work, and I had a woman who was clutching her pearls and was just very horrified that that was even a scenario we would talk about. And just after a couple back and forth I was like no, I'm not arguing with you, and I just sent, I forwarded everything to my head of HR and I was just like just to let you know we might have an issue. So yeah, so I mean I never BCC, but to be honest, that's a rookie move to BCC and not let people know that they're BCC because, that exactly can happen.

Cee Cee: 17:29

That's. And then not only that. Not only does that person look like a fool that sent the email and did the BCC, but whoever replied, all also looks like the fool, because it's kind of like you two are like get on the same page. What is happening?

Warren: 17:46

yeah, you know one thing you mentioned forwarding an email chain after the fact. I've done that any number of times for all sorts of purposes good, bad and different. You know reasons that.

Cee Cee: 17:57

Yeah, that that's check out this stupid email I got.

Warren: 18:01

Yeah, exactly, or what have you, but this wasn't on my agenda. But BCC equals throwing people under the bus. So I've been thrown under the bus twice recently by one of our providers, our short-term disability provider. They stopped paying his claim, it went through, got approved, yada, yada, yada. Then they stopped. They said they needed more information and they were communicating directly to him. Apparently. As I didn't get any of these communications, next thing, you know, he is to send a nasty gram saying that they were waiting on information from me. And I took that. I forwarded his email and I sent it to the provider and said what information are you waiting on from me? I have no communication from you since whatever date. Please let me know what you're waiting on and I will get this resolved now.

Warren: 18:55

And I also included our broker on it because I wanted our broker and they were not VCC. They were blatantly out there. If it's there, I was like is I? You know if it's something that my broker needs to handle and if it's something that may be a negotiating power for getting rid of this short-term disability provider when the contract's over? Because throwing me under the bus does you know that? You know when, especially when it comes. Things like disability claims and things like that that affect people's, those are like some of the highest priority for me, because I don't want to screw with anybody's income flow, especially if you're in a situation where you've been injured or ill or whatever, where you need to make a disability claim and things like that. That's like my highest priority. And I don't know, it just irritated me to get thrown under the bus and, yeah, this provider is not on my happy list, so we'll see what happens at renewal time with them.

Cee Cee: 19:54

You can tell me offline who it is, because I had being on the other side of the short term disability process when I was on leave. I, the company that we used. They said they paid me. So yeah, so a fault on my own. I was very distracted so I didn't fill out the direct deposit paperwork, so they were just going to send me paper checks and I was like, well, this is annoying but whatever, but still, I don't think that's the issue. So they kept saying that they paid me out and I was like, no, I'm clearly missing like three weeks. I'm not like, I'm not going crazy. And they're like, no, it's been distributed. And I'm like I get that it's been distributed, but I have not received them, nor have I cashed them. So it is a problem.

Cee Cee: 20:42

And I've been going back and forth with whoever the account person was and she was absolutely no help. She just kept kind of regurgitating canned responses instead of actually helping me with my issue. I was getting very frustrated to the point where I pulled in HR for HR within my company. I was like you got to help me, to which she followed up with the person, and then she came back and she said, oh, they said that you've been paid, and I'm like somebody, help me because I have not been paid.

Cee Cee: 21:15

And then, all of a sudden, I started to escalate it and magically I'm not exaggerating, magically, I'm not exaggerating seven checks showed up at the same time, all of crazy varying amounts. Like none of it made any kind of sense and I was like, okay, fine, I'll just take it. One check was for $50. One check was for 100. One check was like a full paycheck. It was out of control and at that point I just let it go. I'm like, finally, but I had to give feedback to our benefits people because I mean, if someone is living, instead of having the foresight to be like something's wrong, let me take the initiative and help you. It was horrible. So I'm curious to see who.

Warren: 22:14

My company's name rhymes a lot with Anthem, Life and Disability. So yeah, rhymes with it.

Cee Cee: 22:24

Fantastic, fantastic, not the same one yeah so horrible, horrible to find out that multiple you know short-term disability companies are dropping the ball.

Warren: 22:37

Yeah, fantastic it's it and it's.

Warren: 22:40

It shouldn't be that hard. And I, I, I don't understand. I still, to this day, neither is a broker, know why they stopped payment on it. And then they said they needed more information, and from his provider. Well, there wasn't. I mean, they had everything they needed. We don't, we don't know what happened. They just dropped the ball and decided to say, oh, we were waiting on something from your HR department. No, you're not.

Warren: 23:00

Oh, and same company that rhymes with Anthem Life and Disability has thrown me under the bus on a life insurance claim when an employee passed away almost two years ago now. And I've done absolutely everything. And this is you know. I'm just like, look, he did not enlist a beneficiary and his family's got an attorney. I'm like, I filed the claim with Anthem. That's all I can do. And then your attorney and Anthem can work and I've told them the family, your attorney's going to have to work through Anthem. I've done my paperwork, I've done everything I do. I've gotten a broker involved. They don't know what else needs to be done on our end.

Warren: 23:40

It's just legalese, I guess, of not having a beneficiary listed. But because of that employee two years ago, we made it mandatory when you're filling out your life insurance enrollment, that you must select a beneficiary and that's been pretty good overall. But it does delay things because you need their date of birth and social and things like that, and you know you don't always have that for some people you may list as a beneficiary, so it delays it. So anyways, yeah, that's getting thrown under the bus. That just fires me up because that just seems so cowardice. And you're playing a game. At that point, between BCCing and throwing people in their bus, You're playing a game and I can play games really well, but you know, in an old long run I'm always going to win, especially when I'm the client. But well, before I go on, you had a little something you wanted to discuss.

Cee Cee: 24:40

Yeah, but now I'm kind of sidetracking just. Just because this is it's funny that we're talking about vendors and stuff, so we're actually doing an RFP for our engagement survey provider and platform and it's usually just, you know, every few years just want to do it to make sure that you got the best Selfishly. It would be nice if we just kept the same one, because dealing with the transfer of data and everything just isn't something I had on my bingo card for this year.

Cee Cee: 25:09

But if I have to do it. I'll have to do it. But as I was out of maternity, I was out on leave when the annual survey was published this year and we were using, you know, the same vendors we've used for the past five years and this is the second year in a row that halfway through our like initiative, our project manager was five with absolutely no one to help. So it's funny because we had like a follow up call and I get like this past week and it was that person's you know superior, like on the hierarchy, and she wanted to seek to understand and understand how we can all work together and it just seemed like a lot of damage control because our contract is up. And I just laugh because you know, especially on a contract end year, you would assume that whoever the vendor is would be. You know, we're gonna roll out the red carpet, we're gonna make sure this goes good, like we've made it clear that we're doing an RFP, so this is not a surprise to them.

Cee Cee: 26:21

But to have like another just on the back end, messy project management and all that kind of stuff, it's just I don't know. The turnover is ridiculous. So I thought to myself because my first question was the project management or the project managers within these companies. Is this like an entry-level ish project management role? Is there just like a lot of turnover? It's like no, like there's people who stay in these roles for years, like you know, four or five years, and they move up to like in a, like a larger role. So that's not it. And then I thought, am I the drama? Like, are we the drama, are we the one that chases them away? And it's like no, this person was clearly fired. So now we're, now we're hype, now we're thinking well, maybe we're the the client. They put people who are on pips on set.

Warren: 27:15

I know here's our most difficult client. You need to satisfy them.

Cee Cee: 27:22

Well, I think mostly because you know my VP. He's done that role in years, in lifetimes past, and then also he's just done a lot of engagement surveys in his life. I've done them as well. So it's kind of like if anyone's gonna find the holes in your process, it's gonna be us. So I think, like we're joking, we're like we are the ones that they put the pit people on, like we're the ones that manages them out like this is ridiculous, oh gosh so and my manager literally told the, the woman on the call.

Cee Cee: 28:00

He was like I feel like we get your c team every year. Like, could we get like an a team?

Warren: 28:06

member oh my gosh.

Cee Cee: 28:10

So, anyway, I was like oh god. But so I'm gonna be starting that pretty soon. We're going to be courting different engagement survey platforms and seeing if anyone and you know the other- one.

Warren: 28:24

They started out so great. I love them and I love that I had a person. I had their name, their direct contact number. If I needed something, bam, I can call this.

Warren: 28:46

You know, if you're a small employer like us with under a hundred people insured, you know you can't contact the Anthem directly. You can't, you have to go through the broker and they put hoops in your way. Well, we had someone. Then they went to this teams environment and you had to like we were small business, team A or B or whatever it was. It was the email we had and then they thought that would be good, better services, there's more people on your team to respond and they'll dah, dah, dah. And we did that for a little while and it just, it went. It just went really, really badly and the support went from A plus to D minus and. But when we got our new broker and we were shopping, we're letting them know we're firing our old broker we didn't tell them who at the time, because of these service level issues, and we, as a small employer, we were.

Warren: 29:39

You know, I, we pay the brokers a hell of a lot of money. I make sure we get our money's worth out of them, not in a difficult way, but when I have questions I'm not going to bury myself finding an answer when that's they can do that, and so, yeah, they do. Well. And, knock on wood, the past few years with this new benefit broker I've just been nothing but pleased with and the president of the brokerage company. They're a small outfit which surprised me. We went with them, ultimately went with them, but the owner calls me personally. Hey, just call and check in, see how you're doing and how was your vacation, and things like that. And I'm not a small talk person, but I do appreciate those type of things.

Cee Cee: 30:21

So anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah so but yeah, other than that, we're just getting into talent review time. So it's that glorious time of year where I like to call people chess, like just kind of moving them, um. But yeah, so we we're. We're a fairly large company, we're global and we have like different business units within. So just trying to wrangle all the leaders and it's been, it's been a goal of mine to redo the process, reignite the brand, get people excited, get leaders excited for talent review again. We're doing the nine box, we're doing critical role identification, we're doing all these things.

Cee Cee: 31:13

And you know, I just rolled out the tool, the workbooks, the toolkits, the all the decks and everything and so far, knock on wood, so good, so far, so good. So I know the HR directors that are the ones that are gathering all the insights and all that kind of stuff. They're having decent conversations, utilizing the new tools, which is great, because that's all I want. I want a good process, I want it to be painless, I want everything to go smoothly, I want people to feel like it's impactful. So literally my goal, and this is common sense, but I forgot, transparently, it's kind of one of those things where it's like my HR directors and the HR business partners are my clients, so I sought out to basically make this as easy for them as I possibly could.

Cee Cee: 32:09

That's like so so far, so good. Everyone's so far happy. We have our first critical or not critical but, like, we have our first roll up conversation, our talent conversation on Friday with one of our business units. So we're going to be strategizing before just making sure we're all comfortable with the new process. But I'm very optimistic. My goal is to have HR, but then also at least one executive leader, be like that was a great process this year. That didn't feel painful, yay. So thoughts and prayers that this is going to roll out and fit and land like perfect 10, the way I envisioned.

Warren: 32:55

Well, I love kickoff meetings because one of and okay, I can be an a-hole, so I own that part of it but when you're having this, you identify where your problem areas are going to be and who your problem people are going to be and who's going to be resistant to this process. What are their objections going to be? You think about specific people First. You start big picture. What are the general objections going to be? Why are people going to not like this, how can we make it easy for them, et cetera. Then you get to okay, now we got Johnny to talk about, who hates everything, is a curmudgeon-y son of a bitch and is going to come up with 25 reasons why this sucks before he's even seen the whole thing and things like that. And that's actually kind of the part of the strategy meetings I get into because I want to play the people chess not the moving of the people, but the strategy.

Warren: 33:58

Okay, how are we going to get Johnny's buy-in? Because we know he's going to be difficult. He's going to complain the whole damn time and things like that. So the rest of it's good and fun. But I like playing the emotional intelligence game with these people and saying who are we going to have to sell or schmooze a little and overcome their objections and who are we just going to say you know what, you're an a-hole and we're just going to let you vent and complain and we're going to do damage control to make sure you don't poison the well for everybody else, and I think that's sometimes a good strategy. I'm not the only one who knows that. You know Johnny's a poison pill and is going to complain about everything. Everybody else knows, and so we hopefully won't carry too much weight with, you know, kicking off a project or a new process or a procedure or anything along those lines. That's why I get into the strategy meetings I like yeah, you know there's oh.

Cee Cee: 34:59

In past companies I've had this more so. But my rule of thumb was to find that complainer, find that curmudgeon and like, specifically, work with that curmudgeon to get their buy-in. So now they're like your pal in the ideal world.

Warren: 35:16

That's perfect. Yeah, yes, ideally. And it's funny because it's worked a couple times beautifully in the, so now they're like your pal In the ideal world. That's perfect. Yeah, yes, ideally.

Cee Cee: 35:19

And it's funny because it's worked a couple times beautifully in the past where it's like, okay, well, tell me about the like, what about? The process isn't working for you? And then you're like, what are your suggestions? And like, if you actually like, fold in one or two of their suggestions I mean honestly, usually they have good suggestions, but if you like, fold in one or two of them. And then you're like, hey, I heard you, I listened, like I listened, and I feel you. And this is for you After that, like they love you.

Warren: 35:49

And you've got to butter them up too and you say you know, I wanted to come to you first and talk to get your thoughts and inputs. Make them feel important, in that they are so important.

Cee Cee: 36:05

Feed that ego for them a little bit and things like that, yeah, but you have to do it also authentically, because a bullshitter can smell bullshit, yeah.

Warren: 36:12

I know we knew you would have a lot of questions about this, so we want to involve you from the word. Go and see how we can make this easier for you and what help can you give us Make them the hero.

Cee Cee: 36:28

It's funny because you'll see when, like a curmudgeon, you'll see them turn a corner and they're usually the ones that have all of the opinions. They're always negative opinions of like well, they're just poking holes and not to poke. They don't poke holes to be constructive, they just poke holes to poke holes because they don't want to do the work.

Cee Cee: 36:49

And it's funny when you see their behavior turn a corner and you're like, oh, you got some feedback, okay, and like someone got some coaching okay, it's just, it's funny when you see people just kind of change their behaviors completely yeah or they'll make jokes about it and they'll be like well, you know, I'm the most opinionated one and I'm like you don't say that actually irritates me, because some people are just difficult without knowing.

Warren: 37:22

But when you say you know me, I'm thinking of someone in my mind right now who you know me. He does that All the time and he asked a million questions that none of them are even pertinent. I'm like you know that's not on. I want to so bad, just call him out and say that's not on topic and you're wasting everybody's time. But I got to put on the happy face and try and roll with it and things like that. But when they know they're being difficult, that means I just want to smack the teeth out of their head so hard that that's. That's a trigger for me.

Cee Cee: 37:58

But it means you don't care.

Cee Cee: 38:01

That's what it means, like I, I used to work with someone years ago and it was a very large HR team and whenever we would have like all hands meetings, this person was the one to continually ask the questions at the end and it was like the meeting's over, wrap it up like let's go, I don't, I have shit to do, and it always just seemed like this person would ask these questions because that was this person's only time where, like hr leadership would notice them because their you know their, their role was.

Cee Cee: 38:36

They didn't like interact with the leadership very much, so it was almost like they were trying to like make an impression and it was like they were trying so hard to ask intelligent questions and it was almost like this person made that reputation, like it backfired on them, because then they had this reputation of just like like what, what, what do you want to know? And this you know they're. This person would say the same thing. Like you know me, I have a million questions and it's like just ask him after we got things to do, like we don't need to add another 20 minutes for your stupid question.

Warren: 39:15

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And you know what Everybody else in the room is thinking that too, I've been in some meetings where I'm just an attendee and afterwards you chit-chat God, if someone said, well, just shut up, we're 10 minutes and we could have been out of here, and things like that. Just you know, I got nothing out of that from there and let me peel back the curtain a little bit.

Cee Cee: 39:38

Those things are mentioned in, like talent review meetings, like oh god, all the questions. So I mean, yeah, like your good intentions can backfire. I appreciate your need to network and stand out, but there's a time and place for it and you got to learn how Sit back and watch for a little while before you open your mouth. There's like a finesse to it, yeah.

Warren: 40:04

And you know and know when to take things offline or shoot them an email. Hey, didn't want to interrupt the meeting, but I had a question, Like we had a meeting. I forget what the damn name of the meeting we have every Monday is, but it's all the heads of all the departments and the president and we talk. Everybody gives a rundown what's going on. It director said some things and I didn't want to continue the meeting, didn't want to make it longer, and he and I chit chat every once in a while and I was like, oh, by the way, you mentioned this and we had a little sidebar conversation because I didn't want to take anybody else's time to ask what was a question, probably only pertained to me on it. And yeah, so just learn your places and learn how to work.

Cee Cee: 40:55

Read the room. Just read the room.

Warren: 40:57

Exactly, oh man. So that'll be our best practice for today. Read the damn room.

Cee Cee: 41:05

Read it.

Warren: 41:07

Go back to our emotional intelligence. Non-jaded episode we had a little while back. I love it.

Cee Cee: 41:14

We need to think of another non-jaded episode.

Warren: 41:19

Well, you know what you and I had talked. That non-jaded episode was like the second most downloaded in the first seven days of recording, and so do people not want to hear us be snarky, do they want to actually learn something from us? No, you don't tune into Jaded HR to learn something. You know, learning happens accidentally here. You know, I love when our reviews say it's informative and I learn, it's funny and I learn some things. Sometimes, too, I'm like yeah, yeah, that's what we're going for. Maybe you'll learn something today. Maybe not, probably not, but maybe we'll throw you a bone that'll help you on your, your work day.

Cee Cee: 41:59

You know what? You'll learn to laugh.

Warren: 42:01

Yes and not take HR so seriously. Who?

Cee Cee: 42:05

was. I was thinking about this person and this is a total tangent, but it was someone who made a comment about how they were like thinking of a career in HR. And they listened to our podcast and it shows like all the realities of it and we made a joke. We're like save yourself, Don't do it. But oh, I forget that person's name. Whoever you are, you are on my mind a lot Moments in my day. I will work and in my mind I call you Ricky. I don't know if that's your name, I apologize, but yeah, so I don't think that's the name. But there are moments where I get frustrated at work and I'm like, oh, Ricky really wants to get into this. Oh, you are in my heart and in my mind.

Warren: 42:50

I just tried to pull up our reviews and Chartable does not. We're currently performing some system analytics, maintenance analytics. Excuse me, so I cannot look at our old reviews, but I know who you're talking about. Yeah, and I don't want to deter people from getting into HR, is it? You know? I've been doing it for 25 years. I obviously like it, I have fun with it, I enjoy, I enjoy it, I enjoy my job, I enjoy where I work, but there's just a lot of effed up stuff that happens in HR and only other people in HR.

Warren: 43:23

In HR Besties episode a few weeks ago they were talking about HR. Oh gosh, you know HR being stressed out. There was a New York Times article or something they read about how HR is stressed out. Nobody understands what they go through. Everybody hates HR and doesn't understand. Oh well, you do this and you do that and you do the other thing too, and they don't know all that we are doing. They just. I honestly think some people sit there, think we sit there with both our thumbs stuffed up our ass and wait for someone to come around and ask us a dumb question and things like that.

Cee Cee: 43:57

But yeah, I, I can't people think we're the ones that are the decision makers. Yes, we're not the decision makers, we, we are the ones that are directed by. Well, not always directed, but you know like a lot of these things come from the ceo, from the executive, like we don't, yeah we don't come from the CEO, from the executive, Like we don't make stuff to make your life more difficult, and also we're employees at the same company too.

Cee Cee: 44:28

So anything that is a pain for you is also a pain for us. But you know it's, I don't know.

Warren: 44:32

I know people like to have no empathy.

Warren: 44:35

Yeah, it affects us and more because, yeah, you're going to get upset over you know, new policy, I don't know, dress code change or whatever is you know, got you in a stir right now. But and you're going to come vent to me, but you know I have four other people venting to me about the same thing. I have four other people venting to me about the same thing. And number four I'm just trying my hardest not to show my. What's the lady's name from Yellowstone face, beth? Is it Beth? From Yellowstone face? On that I'm just okay. Poker face, I can't do it. But yeah, you know, and HR is not out to get anybody. We're, you know, trying to make it good for everybody. Honestly.

Cee Cee: 45:21

And for the most part, yes, like all of the part, I should say we're advocating for you, and I think that's what people don't understand. A lot of the things we're doing is advocating for you. We're trying to make things better for you, and I know there's a lot of things that I do that people roll their eyes at, like talent review being one of them. Oh, it's just another stupid exercise, like just to make HR happy, and it's like no, it's not, it's a stupid exercise until John Doe either quits all of a sudden, dies or moves away.

Warren: 45:55

And then, oh my God, what are we going to do? Oh, we've got a plan in place. We've done this, We've prepared for this. We've identified the hypo. I don't know if you use the term hypos. We've identified our hypos. That will be a suitable replacement for this.

Cee Cee: 46:12

And not only that, but it's like oh, this person is, yes, high potential, this person is on a succession plan, this person also needs development in X, y and Z. So let me sit here in front of a bunch of executive leaders and say how we need to spend money on this person so that they can get career development or hypos as a whole thing. Early career let's spend money on them so that they can help development or hypos as a whole thing. Early career let's spend money on them so that they can help. But people don't see that and I think that's where my frustration is, because it's like we're like you'll sit, people will sit there and complain like there's no career development or there's no, which, honestly, when they say career development, they really mean just promotions and more money yeah but they'll like complain like oh, career development this, career development that.

Cee Cee: 46:57

And it's like you don't know all the stuff that's going on behind the scenes and, quite honestly, you shouldn't know you shouldn't behind the scenes, but a lot of the times I'm advocating for, like, developmental paths, I'm like advocating for people to consider other people that they might not have considered prior, like, and this is the stuff that people don't get. So, anyway, I'm off my soapbox.

Warren: 47:24

We're on your side.

Warren: 47:25

I'm on your side. No, we really are. And you know you might not like your benefit renewals or anything like that, and but you know benefit prices are not going to ever go down again, you know, through your employer at least. So you know, just just know that we're fighting our fight to get you the best we can get. But it it's not easy. None of it's easy. It really it.

Warren: 47:51

People, so many people, think HR is and I know, boy, I said the 10 minutes ago, let's start wrapping this up. But HR is not one of those. There's not a lot that's truly easy in HR. When you really boil down to yeah, you know the administratia side of it is just, you know you have to fill this forms, get to check this box, do that. That's the easy part. But when you have to do succession planning and benefits negotiations and all these other behind the scenes things that nobody's ever going to know about or probably not even care about because it doesn't directly impact them, they just don't know what's involved. And I know risk management sometimes falls under HR and things like that. I know risk management sometimes falls under HR and things like that. Just the what you're doing to keep yourself, to keep the company going, it's, it's, there's a lot.

Cee Cee: 48:44

And be kind to your benefits people. I am not a benefits person. I I like to stay away from it.

Cee Cee: 48:51

I think we talked about this last time I was like, but like and this, this is not. This is not political, but what I'm just going to say, like, the world we live in is privatized healthcare and employer funded healthcare. That is the world we live in and unfortunately, prices will continue to go up because these insurance companies want to make money and brokers want to make money. So as that goes, then you will pay more. Like, don't yell at your employer for that. If it really bugs, you go out and vote. I don't know.

Cee Cee: 49:20

But like don't come to us Like we're just playing in a broken system. That's all we're doing, so be kind to your benefits people.

Warren: 49:27

Yeah, exactly so many systems when the government gets involved, you know. But now the IRS is responsible for benefits and that's why you have to have a qualifying event to make changes and all that other fun stuff. It's a broken system. Most employers were doing the right thing before all these laws come into place, and you should come down and hammer the ones that aren't doing the right thing, but just let everybody else go. Don't give us more laws to worry about and things like that.

Warren: 49:54

But it always takes me back to season one, and season one was the year the crown act got passed. And now you can go on season one somewhere. We're recording and I said I was. I'm recorded saying that's the stupidest thing ever. Who's ever going to discriminate someone based on their hair style, texture, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Like it wasn't. Even six months later there was a case for it. I'm like how stupid are you? It's those stupid employers that do these insanely stupid things. We're not going to hire someone with dreadlocks. Well, okay, give me the BFOQ here.

Warren: 50:34

You're getting to learn something now. Why they can't you know, can you know? And maybe it's a PPE issue? Well, one thing I've recently learned if they have facial hair, hair or anything else that would obstruct their PPE. You have to get them customized. Offer the ability to get customized PPE. Offer the ability to get customized uh pp.

Warren: 50:58

Maybe that respirator mask it only goes over your nose and mouth won't work for someone with one of those operator style beards and they don't want to shave it for whatever reason. So you've got to get the whole head type respirator for for those. They're out there and they're a hell of a lot more expensive. But you you've got to. You know, do these things and in the long run. Yeah, I spent $500 more on a respirator than I should have. Oh well, it beats being on the headline for not hiring someone because of their hair color or hairstyle lack of hair, in my case, the situation. But I'm on the record of back then, in 2001 or whatever, saying, or 2020, saying this is the stupidest law, why would anybody ever do this? And yet somebody had to be an example to do it.

Cee Cee: 51:45

I'm like really, Really, there is a reason. There's an ice cream shop around the corner here where they oh, I don't know, I don't know how you feel about like tattoos and piercings. I'm all for it, I have tattoos, I'm pierced, whatever. I have a nose ring, I'm like it is what it is, but at the same time, like I don't care. And it's just so funny that, like, some businesses have such an issue with their people having visible tattoos and stuff and this is an ice cream shop that employs mostly college kids who come back home or live in the area. They have tattoos, they have piercings, and this one girl has like tattoos on her arm and the owners told her to bandage it up to cover it, and so when you go there, she looks like she's injured.

Warren: 52:34

A burn victim.

Cee Cee: 52:35

Yes, and I'm like. So you always ask like, oh my god, are you okay? And she's like I have tattoos and I have to cover them up and I'm like you look like you need medical care you look like you shouldn't be working like what is worse, I don't like. Should I be concerned? Are you bleeding into my ice?

Warren: 52:51

cream. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Cee Cee: 52:53

Oh, it causes more issues. Just let the tattoos fly. It is what it is. It doesn't get in the way of someone's ability to serve someone soft serve. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Warren: 53:09

I do not have any tattoos or piercings. In the 90s, 80s and 90s I had my left ear pierced. Probably the only irrational fear I do have is needles. I hate needles. Yet I get my allergy shots every month two of them but I can't see myself being strapped in a chair for a couple hours to get a tattoo. I love some people's body art. I think some of it is just incredible and awesome. I was like that looks really cool, but no, I would probably have a heart attack and die on the tattoo chair because just seeing that needle I'm giving blood tomorrow as our company's semi-annual blood drive and I'm type O negative, so everybody wants my blood.

Warren: 53:59

I'm going to give blood and I'm going to suck it up and I'm going to be a big boy. But that's going to take a lot out of me, not just the blood, it's going to be mentally exhausting for me. I get the first appointment in the morning, just so I'm not sitting there stressing about it all. Oh gosh, my appointment's at 11. Oh, you know I'm not. You know, just you just find the damn vein the first time, which they almost always do, and let me just sit there and look the other direction and pretend I'm not there, and then we will. We will part our ways very happily. So yeah, oh geez, now we're up to an hour, so what the hell?

Warren: 54:38

yeah, this is what happens with like two adhd co-hosts just ramble without an agenda yeah, yeah, you know, when we have a talking plan, it goes either, but personally we said I don't have anything really to talk about. Yeah, we've got an hour in to it. So I want to thank the underscore orchestra for use of the theme song devil the devil, and our voice artist is Andrew Culpa. As always, I'm Warren.

Cee Cee: 55:02

I'm Cece.

Warren: 55:03

And besides wasting an hour of your time, we're here to help you survive HR one. What the fuck moment at a time? Yeah you.