Must Listen to HR Podcasts: Corporate Pizza Party - Discussing Salary Negotiation

Ever wondered how LinkedIn influencers turn likes into livelihoods, or why resumes are still a thing in the digital age? We've got you covered in this episode with the entertaining trio from the Corporate Pizza Party Podcast—Mike, Farrah, and Dan. Together, we tackle the quirks and questions of corporate and social media life with humor and honesty. Mike shares the origin story of their podcast, revealing how leveraging internet fame can lead to insightful and hilarious discussions about the absurdities of the corporate world. Warren might be battling a cold, but that won't stop the laughter and lively banter.

Join us as we dissect the world of social media personas who’ve found fame not through expertise, but through clever content creation. We introduce you to the likes of Roberta, whose LinkedIn popularity may not match the quality of her expensive resumes. Our discussion shifts from individuals to the broader culture of engagement bait and copy-paste narratives on platforms like LinkedIn. We also explore the often-overlooked complexities of HR work, dispelling myths and misconceptions about a field that often gets blamed for issues beyond its control.

But it's not all fun and games—we dive into serious topics too. The nuances of salary negotiation and the importance of transparent communication between recruiters and candidates are dissected with practical advice on how to navigate professional expectations in a changing workforce landscape. Whether you're curious about the generational shifts in workplace attire or the pitfalls of faux negotiation tactics, you'll find insights and humor in equal measure. So tune in, laugh along, and learn with us as we unravel the mysteries of HR, one "what the fuck" moment at a time.

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Corporate Pizza Party

• Website https://www.corporatepizzaparty.com/
• TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@corporatepizzapod
• Instagram https://www.instagram.com/corporatepizzapod

Farah Sharghi

• Instagram https://www.instagram.com/farahsharghi
• TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@farahsharghi
• LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/fsharghi/

Mike Peditto

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Scale 2 The Top with Dr. Lyman Montgomery

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Chapters

• 0:02 Corporate Pizza Party Podcast Interview
• 11:59 Corporate Social Media Trolling Tactics
• 15:17 [Ad] Scale 2 The Top with Dr. Lyman Montgomery
• 15:51 (Cont.) Corporate Social Media Trolling Tactics
• 18:35 Social Media Trolling and HR Challenges
• 25:07 Negotiation Strategies in Recruiting
• 34:53 Navigating Salary Negotiations and Candidate Trust
• 40:09 Negotiation and Generational Differences
• 49:25 Navigating Interview Dress Codes
• 59:00 Surviving HR With Team Signoff

Transcript

Andrew Quilpa: 0:02

Had you actually read the email, you would know that the podcast you are about to listen to could contain explicit language and offensive content. These HR experts' views are not representative of their past, present or future employers. If you have ever heard my manager is unfair to me. I need you to reset my HR portal password, or Can I write up my employee for crying too much? Welcome to our little safe zone.

Warren: 0:49

Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by five HR professionals who want to help you get through the workday by saying everything you're thinking, but say it out loud. I'm Oren.

Cee Cee: 0:59

I'm Cece.

Daniel Space: 1:01

Hello, we're the Corporate Pizza Party Podcast. Thank you so much for having us, and I'm going to let Mike introduce us, since he is our founder.

Mike Peditto: 1:11

Oh my goodness. Hello, we are the Corporate Pizza Party Podcast. Thank you so much for having us, and I'm going to let Farrah tell you a little bit about us, because she knows everything.

Farah Sharghi: 1:22

Well, thank you, Mike, for letting him run for that wonderful introduction. Hi everybody, I'm Farah Shargi, I'm the one-third of the corporate pizza party and I am a technical recruiter turned career and job search coach. And, yeah, my background is in engineering, finance and, yeah, recruiting for companies like Google, Lyft, Uber, TikTok and the New York Times and advising startups. So I'm going to bring it right back to Mike. Since you gave it to me, I'm going to bring it right back at you. So why don't you tell the lovely people here more about yourself?

Mike Peditto: 1:54

Thank you. My name is Mike. I am the founder, as Dan said, of the Corporate Pizza Party podcast. What that means is we like to joke that I am the Liz Lemon to our Jenna Maroney and Tracy Jordan, of Dan and Farrah, who need to be wrangled into all sorts of things. I am known for creating job search advice, mostly in video format, on TikTok and Instagram. You can find me at Realistic Recruiting, where I gained a following very quickly after losing multiple jobs in a short amount of time, currently sit as the director of talent for Teal, the AI resume company, and I like to mess with Dan a lot when we record our podcast. I like to let him come up with ideas and then railroad them and not get to any of them as we record our show and that's my role is making sure anything Dan wants to talk about we do not talk about, so today we probably will let Dan talk about it once, though, and I'll throw it back to him.

Daniel Space: 2:48

Thank you, yeah, that's pretty much exactly how this goes. For anyone who doesn't know me, I'm Daniel Space, also known as Dan from HR, and I talk about job search as one of the elements, but also just how corporate America works from the HR perspective, and I try to do a mix of informing people so they can be successful, as well as debunking stupid advice that people keep liking to take.

Warren: 3:07

Awesome and, if you don't remember, dan was a guest approximately a year ago, I guess, on the show Right about a year ago now, and so he's back. But now he's with his team, his corporate pizza party team. And if you didn't catch the last episode, which was the first of this series, we're doing a must listen to HR podcast series, and so CC and I have scoured the podcast land and we've picked a handful of HR podcasts that we feel confident saying this is one you've got to listen to because there's a lot of shitty ones out there and there's a lot of corporate shill ones out there. And we put criteria, you know, and actually backing up even further how this all started, at the end of the year you always have these top whatever podcasts, hr podcasts and Jaded HR has been on a few of them, but one in particular last year stood out because it was a list. But the number two podcast was the creator of the list.

Warren: 4:10

He lists himself and also on his list he had podcasts which hadn't been published in years and podcasts that were just plain corporate shills. You know, there's a couple of HRS companies we'll name them nameless that have a podcast out there and it's like no, it has to be something A I would listen to, b has to be recorded recently and C it can't be a corporate shill of a podcast. So you all fit the criteria very, very well. You're funny, you're entertaining. I love it. So, mike, you came up with the idea of Corporate Pizza.

Mike Peditto: 4:44

Party. I did, and this actually reminded me I forgot in our intro to mention that we were recently named the top HR podcast in the Corporate Pizza Party year and podcast rankings. So we're very excited. It's a one podcast list and we have dominated it for two straight years. But yes, I did. Here's originally what happened. True story Dan and Farrah both had recently you know about a year plus ago lost roles and we were sort of talking and I was like, oh, they have some free time and they are far more famous than me and have a lot more followers on the internet than me. I'm going to ride their fame wave as high as I can take it and I'll just handle all the logistics to make it work. So it's like you guys want to do a podcast and then I never really asked them to do any of the work to get it going so we could do that and the Corporate Pizza Party podcast was born. Yes, All right.

Warren: 5:40

Well, one of the things that I really like about your podcast and I'm sorry I'm struggling listeners through a cold which has attacked only my voice. I feel perfect. My voice has been overused, especially today. Meetings, orientation I've got no break today. But love when you start trolling your victims. And Dan, even before Corporate Pizza Party, made a career at this.

Warren: 6:05

I've seen you all as well on Instagram. Like I said, I'm not on TikTok any longer, but I've seen you all do some things. But I just love the calling people out for who they are and what they're doing. And the bad not only bad, some of it's just plain horrible advice people are out there giving in the HR realm whether it's salary negotiation, whether it's applying for a job, whether it's fill in the blank just really shitty HR advice out there. And yeah, I, I love it and I love when you go online and you, you call these people out by name and things like that. I, I kind of would like to do that, but I don't have the, the pedigree and background that y'all have to to to. You know, do that I'm. I'm a small town person, small businesses. I've been involved in my basically my whole career, so it's it's warren, I assure you you can be dramatic without a pedigree.

Daniel Space: 7:08

You can bring the drama. It doesn't have to be right, it doesn't have to be true, it just has to be entertaining, okay you don't need a pedigree to be petty pedigree free.

Warren: 7:19

no, I'm talking about the companies. Y'all have worked for, the things y'all have done, your, your online followers. I can't't even, I don't even know the last time JTHR made any social media posts. I don't know, I'm so bad at that type of stuff, but yeah, y'all have got a good thing going on there. Well, thank you. So now are y'all moving now to bi-weekly recording? From weekly recording, or what is the?

Daniel Space: 7:46

I see some faces All of you to assume we have a consistency war.

Mike Peditto: 7:49

Yeah, here's Okay. So most podcasts, you know this. I'm going to make an assumption about your podcast Record well in advance. Maybe you batch some episodes or whatever it might be. We record on Friday and we release on Wednesday. It was originally Monday, it became Tuesday, it's currently Wednesday and if anyone's busy on Friday, there's just no episode that week and that is how the Corporate Pizza Party podcast works. We are going to make an effort in the next coming years. We're just about to hit our one year anniversary. December 4th will be one year of our first episode. We're going to make an effort to actually batch records that it is a regular weekly episode, but as of now it's weekly to bi-weekly to you know when we get around to it.

Warren: 8:35

Okay, I'll take that answer. What has been your favorite target to hone in? Who? I should say not what. Who has been your favorite target to hone in on and just light their asses on fire, Troll away.

Daniel Space: 8:52

Lauren, you're messy, I love it. I want to know.

Cee Cee: 8:57

His next gig is going to be hosting like Housewives reunions.

Daniel Space: 9:00

Yeah he's great, he's all here for the drama. He's like name the name, drop it. Here we go.

Farah Sharghi: 9:06

And we know HR drama is the best right Like out of all the dramas, HR is the best drama.

Mike Peditto: 9:13

Best. Farrah and Dan love to drop names way more, so I would just see who I'd lead with. I think I know who's on their mind, but let's see who they say.

Daniel Space: 9:21

So I kind of started to evolve. No-transcript never violated any terms of service. I just got brigaded by someone who I made a funny comment on one of their videos unrelated to HR. So what I really wanted to do was focus only on punching up. So there were a few people that I stitched that had smaller accounts.

Daniel Space: 9:53

I felt really bad at one point because there was this young woman who had given really terrible advice about what type of interview questions things were and I stitched it and said this is terrible, these are not those types of interviews, what are you doing? And all of my followers went and left comments on her page and she was like 22. So I felt really bad because I'm like trying to scam people, just what she knew. So then I only started to go for accounts that were bigger than mine. So, luckily, being banned man, I got to start from scratch. So every account was bigger than mine. But my biggest ones were like I can't stand Austin Belichick, who's like the biggest career influencer, like he is the number one career influencer, okay, and he gives the worst advice.

Daniel Space: 10:26

Erin Mago is one of my fan favorites just because she has fooled the entire world and everybody loves her for it and I think that that's we love that for her, despite the fact she's never worked one day in corporations Vivian, you're rich BFF just because she steals content and she often gives a lot of misinformation, especially around salary negotiation. And the one thing that I just consistently get so angry with is this is people's money. Like I could never if I didn't know how this works. Like I could never go online and make content about saving credit card fees or where to invest your money, cause I don't know that. So the idea of someone coming on here with like being 25, 26 and saying, oh yeah, here's what you do to negotiate a sale Like not knowing this is how people pay their bills. This is the people's lives. People get offers pulled by following this information. That's what fuels my desire to at least be really caustic.

Warren: 11:14

Okay, I like that.

Farah Sharghi: 11:15

Yeah, I think Dan stole a couple of my personal favorites, because Vivian did actually Vivian stole from me and I made a video where I spliced it. I had to take it down because her followers she had like two or three million at the time like came after me saying oh no, that's not theft. I'm like what planet are you on? Like that? You think that's not set? I mean outright stole the entire video almost word for word, added more and then dan was like what the fuck is this anyway? Oh, by the way, sorry for cursing, I don't know if you guys curse on your.

Daniel Space: 11:48

You don't care so yeah, so yeah, definitely vivian greg langstaff and his like this is a 12 out of 10 resume and I'm like this is bullshit.

Farah Sharghi: 11:59

Robin's story, I think, is one of our all-time favorites. So robin, now roberta story again. We're not exactly sure why she changed her name on linkedin, but I think dan knows her history better than I do, but she basically like tripled down during the pandemic and got like almost a million followers on LinkedIn. She sells resumes for what? Like $2,000? Yeah, for one resume. I cannot tell you $2,000. That's stupid. I cannot tell you how many clients I have received where I have reviewed.

Farah Sharghi: 12:34

I have gotten the Robin resumes and when I meet with them, initially I go excuse me, but like can I ask, is this a Robin story or a storyline resume? They're like, absolutely, I'm like, yeah, I could tell that level of bad and but what they do is they do that whole hero posting of like like you know, emotionally connecting with someone and being like corporations are not fair, blah, I'm on your side, right. And then, as a result of that, they get scammed out of their money when they hire her to to help them with their resumes. So you know, people like that I just absolutely cannot stand. And then the one insulting guys obviously, obviously, jerry is my favorite to troll. It's just like these guys like, have some corporate experience, but they were like interns. I'm like you weren't even a full time employee. I mean, you weren't even a contractor, you were like an intern. Like, if you're a contractor, I could kind of get that.

Farah Sharghi: 13:26

But like, what do you know about moving up the corporate ladder? What do you know about hiring? What do you know about moving up the corporate ladder? What do you know about hiring? What do you know about interviewing? You don't. What are you talking about? And now they've made they've made like buku dollars, millions and millions of dollars off of stuff that they don't know anything about. But they've been able to manipulate the system by starting several accounts, liking each other's stuff, reposting stuff, and so it like, basically, you, you know, blew up their own channels and so people started to trust them more because they got verified and had all these followers. And yeah, I mean you know lather rinse, repeat. But yeah, those are. Those are some of my all-time favorites to troll.

Cee Cee: 14:02

I'm just discovering more and more that none of it has anything to do with expertise and all of it has everything to do with how good of a content creator you are, how good, what hashtags you use, like.

Daniel Space: 14:14

it has nothing to do with these people's actual knowledge, which, as we've learned, is mostly nothing, nothing but we trust them and I, out of all of them, I give a little bit of credit to OneSulting because I know I know one of them worked at Google and they were in product, so they understood how to market a product. They turned themselves to a product and, despite the fact that I don't like any of their content and I've called them out a few times, I'm able to hold two things at once that I don't like the fact they scam people, but I'm impressed with their business tactic of how they sold themselves as a product. They connected with college students. So they connected with people two years out of college saying we're under underdogs, just like you. We couldn't get jobs either.

Daniel Space: 14:55

But now look at us. We worked at google, we got jobs at all at uber, we got jobs at twitch, and college students and college graduates don't know any better. So they're like this guy is just like me, he knows okay, I guess I can spend 350 dollars because he's just like me and he has this fun discord server and they make fun youtube videos with mukbang, nicole's university, saying, hey, we were just like you. But here's and they're selling this hidden sauce and everyone wants that hidden sauce and it's only until you're a little bit later in your career where you're like, wait a minute, this, you didn't really actually tell me anything that was. That was really a value.

Warren: 15:44

Right, well, well, mike, I'll let you answer the question. I don't hear you trolling as much by. I hear some of your reactions like put, last week you fired up all of Reddit or something. So Like what? Last week you fired up all of Reddit or something. So how about you? Who's on your target list?

Mike Peditto: 16:01

Yeah, you know, I think myself and I think Corporate Pizza Party takes a similar tone, a little bit different than how Dan and Farrah are kind of talking about people on here, in that I'm uninterested anymore in going after individuals for like bad advice or scamming people or whatever. I can't fight that fight. It's not worth my time. I see people get way too fired up over it and I think we've all sort of like made that move for ourselves a little bit. And last year I used to get into it with people a lot more when I was kind of newer into this and I started getting called like a bully and I was like I don't know if I am a bully, but also I don't even want that to be what I'm doing. I like to and I think where Corporate Pizza Party really comes in is less about like an individual and more like this whole idea.

Mike Peditto: 16:50

And our favorite thing to be doing on the podcast is like reading these bullshit stories Like I will call out on LinkedIn all day the like copy and paste, like oh, she came in 15 minutes late to the interview day. They're like copy and paste, like oh, she came in 15 minutes late to the interview. Most people would have said no, but I found out that her car broke down and she had a pawn it for a bus pass and like it's just like they like copy and paste these and they all make the same post. Like I will comment or point that out all day, every day, because that's less like a scam and more just like disengagement bait stuff.

Mike Peditto: 17:15

Yeah, and you know, last week we went at it, that story that went super viral, about a whole HR team getting fired because of an ATSR rejecting someone. It's a fake story. It was an anonymous Reddit comment that you know turned into media everywhere and I like I dug deep and I set up a fake Reddit account and I basically just like threw all sorts of gas on this ridiculous fire to begin with and was just like messing with it there. Greg Langstaff is one person I will go after every time. I had to block him because he made me very mad, so I'll just drop that name. But in general, like I you know, I think the three of us have stopped these individual fights with people because it's just you can't win it, it's just it's pointless.

Warren: 17:53

No, it's not necessarily about winning. It's about the fun, the battle, the game of it, sometimes just reading the banter back and forth of it and and things like that is I, I don't do it, I couldn't do it. I'm not as creative as y'all for it, but I couldn't, you know, call out someone. I'm just, you know my line would be you're full of shit and that's sort of the end of my. I wouldn't be able. That's the end of story for me with that. But I do. I have enjoyed, I have enjoyed listening to seeing online and things like that. And, like I said, I'm not even on LinkedIn. Linkedin used to be one of my favorite places to go to. You know, waste time, if you will, or do research and things like that. It's Facebook 2.0 right at this point. Really, it is so bad right now I just can't. I can't.

Farah Sharghi: 18:42

But that's what all the tech companies do. It's like oh look, TikTok's FYP is doing well, let's all create the same thing. Or TikTok shop is doing well, let's all like now have live streaming shopping, like that's going to be the new trend. So everybody just copies one another and sees what sticks and then they just like, some things you know pan out and others don't. It just falls away. But yeah, LinkedIn has definitely become a bit of a mess Something funny from the is.

Daniel Space: 19:10

As Mike said, I think all three of us at some point over the last year or two decided to kind of move away from being call out accounts. Occasionally we would do it, but we would also kind of take a new approach. I still love being really sarcastic, so if I can be funny with it then I'll do it, and especially if I'm punching up. But what's funny is that I haven't really been posting a lot of content for the last few months. I've been launching something else and I finally started to get posting into more content. And as people are seeing me again, they're tagging me in saying wait, is this valid? Is this valid? Is this true?

Daniel Space: 19:35

And so I got tagged in a video about four or five times with this woman in a car saying, just to let you know, resumes do not matter anymore, it doesn't matter what your resume is and apologize to all resume writers Recruiters don't even look at resumes, it's all about who you know. Networking is everything. And I got tagged in that video like three times. And so then I commented and said, hey, no offense. No offense to the OC. This is common advice. It leads to networking in the hidden job market, but there's no evidence to suggest that resumes are not important and most hires are still made with the resume. And I was like all right, you know this, this is not I'm. I'm. I'm not attacking her, I'm just going to it. But people thought I was being sarcastic. They thought that this was like the new version of me. They had, like someone just said here comes Dan from HR, his bully again. I'm like. I'm like, if you're going to call me a bully, let me deserve it, like I wasn't even mean. She has 3000 followers.

Farah Sharghi: 20:19

Well, I think a lot of it is like sorry to interject, but like I think a lot of it. Oh, like the reason why we don't call out people anymore is because what we call out other creators. They're like oh, hr is just a bunch of assholes. Look, they're being even bigger jerks. We need to come after HR. So they're not even listening to us. They're not even listening to like, they're not being rational, right.

Farah Sharghi: 20:51

It's kind of like behavioral economics when it comes to when people buy and sell with their own financial accounts, like the markets are doing, well, oh my god, I need to buy more. So they're buy high, and then, when the markets go down, oh my god, I'm gonna lose everything. Then they sell low and then all that money that they've saved and accumulated over the years doesn't grow appropriately. So it's conceptually the same thing and I think that's I know that's one of the reasons why I stopped making those kinds of videos. It's like what's the point? I'm just getting attacked all the time and it leads to nothing but like me expending my energy to trolls who are just, you know, jerks on the Internet, who are clearly unattractive and not wealthy and have nothing better to do with their time than to troll HR people.

Cee Cee: 21:33

No, thanks, I feel that way. I've jumped into the comment section, so I don't know why this is a sticking point to me. But whenever somebody mentions, oh, hr is doing their annual performance review, they say it's quote unquote, confidential. But we know that they can see everything and we're not like that whole lore. And I've jumped in the comment section and I've been like because I don't know why I'm passionate, I don't know why this is the thing for me. There can be so many other things in the world that I could, like you know, fight on a hill for this, is it, I guess? But like I'll go in there and people, as soon as I start to spew, like okay, no, if your company's doing through a third party, you don't like blah, blah, people will then attack me because I now am like the narc central hr sent us all on the internet with the same message to just spread the propaganda to everybody, right?

Cee Cee: 22:26

now I got the memo I get the daily memo.

Daniel Space: 22:30

Yeah, I remember one of the first posts I had made that had went a little bit viral and this was like early 2021, where I explained the difference between on why a manager could give a compassionate termination. So, instead of a performance termination, give them the option to resign and still agree to pay out unemployment, but let them own the message and take away the stigma and the loss of dignity and the loss of control from a performance firing. And it went a little bit viral and like the number of comments I got of people like, well, my HR raped my father's mother and killed my dog in the head, I'm like what does that have to do with me? Like I am not the personal. I do not speak for all of the central HR. We're not a hive mind, but people. That is where people go. They're like your HR. Let me give you all of the brunt of my frustration that's both real and imaginary from everyone saying that that HR is evil.

Farah Sharghi: 23:14

I made a video recently. It's going viral right now and it's like how to maximize your PTO. So I made it last year. I did it a few days ago, yeah, and it's great. And what's hilarious is the comments that I get are. I mean, obviously it's going to get a ton of shares? Why? Because it's applicable to a lot of people. But you've got people in healthcare, people working in retail. People are just like this doesn't apply to me. Cries in retail, cries in healthcare. I'm like you chose your profession, I didn't choose it. And then last year and this year, somebody wrote the same comment. They were like these people are complaining about getting bean soup and there actually being beans in it.

Mike Peditto: 23:52

You remember the? Well, it's the bean soup viral thing. I mean it's main character syndrome. It you remember the bean? Well, it's the bean soup viral thing. I mean it's main character syndrome. It's all over the internet, right, it's all just like well, that doesn't apply to me. Like cool, then fucking scroll Like they're just like.

Mike Peditto: 24:03

I don't know. There's this video that went viral a couple weeks ago and I loved it. It was so short and it was just like this creator when, just like if something, just like there's no way you go through the real world like that, just like people say a general thing and you have to prove that, like that doesn't apply to you. Like I don't know if you guys know the bean soup story. It's like an old, famous TikTok thing from a few years ago.

Mike Peditto: 24:28

This creator showed like a meat free this is where the bean soup term came from. It was like a protein heavy bean soup for vegetarians and people kept asking questions like, oh, I don't like this, like what could I do? And like she would make a video. Like, oh, you could substitute this and then. But there was like comments that were just like I don't like beans, so like what I do, and like she made a video where she was just like I don't know, like put meat in it. Then, like I just like it's just, if you don't like bean, then this bean soup recipe is not for you. It's just like keep moving on.

Cee Cee: 25:00

I was gonna say I don't think people got the memo that you don't have to engage with everything on the internet, like you can scroll and just live your life, and you don't have to engage.

Mike Peditto: 25:12

I can't make a video that applies to the 4 billion people on TikTok. It just like, like doesn't work. Like people are like oh well, this only applies if you work in the US and I live in Europe. Okay Well, there's videos about the best restaurant in London and I don't live there, so like, don't make those either, I guess.

Daniel Space: 25:30

Exactly, exactly. Now I am not above this, so I will say it's. I've had to sort of monitor my own behavior and just kind of give myself that mantra, like I don't have to respond to anything, I can disagree with this and scroll on to the next thing. I do not have to engage.

Warren: 25:44

Yeah. Yeah, I'm not. My wife thinks I'm pathetic the way I do social media. I'll make a post every now and again where I've made more than I have in a long time lately, but when I'm schooling, I see your friends. I just hit the like button. She goes can't you just say something? I'm like I just liked it, that's it. I liked it, I moved on. I didn't read any of the comments. I don't need the comments or anything like that. So, anyways, you're a good friend, I just like Thumbs up. So we had a topic we wanted to discuss today and it is offer negotiation, and we were discussing before we got online. This is like the perfect storm is unraveling around us with this topic. You know Christina from Baked HR, who's been on half a dozen times on the podcast, just made a post on Instagram about her frustration of people taking influencers advice when it comes to this.

Warren: 26:41

And so, as a recruiter, I spent the first seven plus years of my career recruiting. I did fairly well at it, but the first thing at my first job I was virtually beaten into my head was pre-close. Your opening conversation ends with a pre-close. You say okay, so you're looking for this type job, this location, this salary, and get them to confirm and say all this so that when you come back to them and you have an offer, that's this job and it's that salary and you can use that against them.

Warren: 27:15

Essentially, no, that'll be taken out of context by someone, but you use that information. Hey, you, you, this is the salary you told me you wanted. We got 10 more, we got this. That the other thing all right, you're ready to go and get them all fired up and it is pre-closing a thing anymore is where do where do we stand with that? Because I would have gotten probably fired if I'd lost so many candidates due to not pre-closing them and having my information. Okay, well, sally's looking for 125K, wants to work in this industry, in this area, and I didn't pre-close her, so she rejected our offer.

Daniel Space: 27:56

So I think and I want Farrah and Mike to take over a majority of this because they're recruiters, so they live this day to day. But what I saw live happen was people took influencers' advice who had no experience whatsoever in HR, saying negotiate everything and never give the number first, and the number that they give you is the absolute lowest, so you can always go above. And people took that to heart. People listened to an Aaron McGill saying do this and then saying it during the interview and then getting an offer pulled and then it makes the recruiter look bad because they're like we agreed on 130. Why are you asking for 160 now, like everything just looks bad. So I think Farrah and Mike can absolutely manifest how that works as recruiters. But from what I saw when I was doing an HR business partner, even at Epic or as a consultant, that's what I'm consistently seeing.

Farah Sharghi: 28:43

So as a recruiter it's funny because so before recruitment I worked in finance and I worked in sales and finance and so I know exactly what you're talking about, warren it's like what you have to do is take someone through a consultative sales model to basically Jedi mind truck them into what you want them to do. Now, as a recruiter, I realized really quickly oh you know what, if I discuss comp at the very beginning, within the first five minutes of a phone call, I can save myself a hell of a lot of time and headache. And so as part of my opening shtick, I will tell the candidate I go, you're about to have a very different conversation than they're used to having with a recruiter. And I pause, I wait for the nervous giggle and then I move forward and I go okay, so with it, you know, I'm actually going to disclose to you the compensation for this position. So we're going to go over base salary, bonus, potential equity. That way you have an idea of what a potential offer could look like for you. And if that is an alignment, then we'll move forward. And then I discuss, like what we're going to talk about, and then the end I gain agreement because we always want them in a yes mentality, got to get them to say yes. And I go and how does that sound? Yeah, that sounds great, moving forward. And I remember and I'm going to call it out Normally I wouldn't do names like this, but when I worked at the New York times, the way that they hired for the group that they assigned me to, they had one evergreen requisition for 13 roles and I was like what the actual F?

Farah Sharghi: 30:09

And I remember going into the first meeting with the then recruiter, who then resigned, and I was like what nonsense is this? And I remember going to my manager and saying like, what are you doing? Like, why are you trying to hire Amazon employees who make two to three X which are able to offer them? Why are you even bothering putting them in a pipeline? And what are you doing? No, but the hiring managers really want to interview them. I'm like why? Because they like to waste their time and company time. Like, are you nuts? No, and so I said this is how I, this is my process. And she said you're not going to do that. And I go, watch me. No-transcript what you did with them, with us, because we hired female engineers. We did all sorts of stuff like, yeah, if you just approach it correctly and pre-close the candidate at the very beginning, like you were talking about Warren, you won't have a mess and waste much time. Wow, it's not that hard of a concept.

Warren: 31:31

Well, do you think that's changed with all these influencers? You've pre-closed them, like Dan was saying. Hey, we talked about 120. I'm offering you 130. And now they're coming back at 170 because they've seen whatever influencer fill in the blank, say you can always get more.

Farah Sharghi: 31:49

Yeah, I've had that and I'm like I'm I don't know if you know me well, warren, but I'm kind of one of those that's like fuck around and find out, so I'll just like confront them. I don't, I don't pander to that shit. I'm like, okay, we discuss this. What changed? What changed? You tell me. I put them right on the spot. I'm like, oh, I have an offer that I can pull if I want to. I have the ability to do that. So what changed?

Farah Sharghi: 32:09

Why do you feel like you deserve more? This is how you performed in the interview process. Hr feels, based on your performance, et cetera, this is the offer that you deserve. Why do you feel you deserve more? Because Vivian told me, yeah, exactly. Vivian told me you know no, yeah, but like I know Dan has made videos about this but like people have tried negotiating, like cell phones, like, and I'm like do you need a cell phone for your job? You're a software engineer. You use Slack. What are you talking about? I'm a recruiter. Yeah, of course I'm going to need my cell phone. It's for my job. But if you don't need it for your job, why are you trying to negotiate that? That's ridiculous and, as candidates, you should talk to the recruiter at the very first call and ask them what's negotiable and what's not. That's also like fault on you if you didn't do that. Sorry, not sorry.

Warren: 32:59

I love candid conversations. I love hey, I must. This is my must have list and if you give it to me straight, I can, as a recruiter, save everybody a lot of time. Okay or no, we're not going to be able to do that. I'm sorry, we can't meet four of your five must-haves and I don't know why people would want to continue to play the game after that, but I think a lot of these influencers have turned it into a game. They're turning it into a game.

Farah Sharghi: 33:30

Totally Sorry. The boys know that I tend to interrupt. I am so sorry, Warren.

Warren: 33:35

Go for it.

Farah Sharghi: 33:36

I was going to say one thing.

Farah Sharghi: 33:38

I had a candidate once who was like really, really young I think I had 10 offer negotiation calls with this guy because it wouldn't sink in where I was like, dude, what are you doing? This is the offer. No, but the way it works is that you make me an offer and I send you what I want, and then you come back and you do this and you do that, but you didn't do this and I go, I can do whatever I want. This is a salary negotiation. Get it together.

Farah Sharghi: 34:08

But let me tell you something ward, when you treat candidates like people and I do like they come back all the time, these guys or gals that I've hired over the years, they always message me hey, fair, I'm on the market. Or hey, can we catch up? I'm like, okay, sure, like what's going on, so it may. Even if they get influence, it's okay. Educate them and be like that's not how this works. You're taking advice from someone who clearly has no experience. So stop that. Actually take advice from people who actually know what they're talking about and if you want to go down that road, knock yourself out, pull your offer. Do you want that? No, okay, anyway, I'll get off my soapbox.

Cee Cee: 34:46

I will say I think that as a recruiter, being that candid and having those blunt conversations to your point, farrah, people will come back to you because now you're no longer bad HR that we were talking about before, Now you're trusted HR and now you're building this relationship with someone through. And I agree, the candid conversations are the best, like cut through the bs what about you, mike?

Daniel Space: 35:12

what's your experience been?

Mike Peditto: 35:14

I. Sometimes I like to just let farah go. Sometimes you can just like fire farah up and you can just like hey, farah, what do you think about siren negotiations? And then, like 20 minutes later, you'll know how farah designed a web software that flew a spaceship into mars. But I she's done a lot of stuff. It's amazing to listen to I. So I don't know.

Mike Peditto: 35:35

Like I for one don't think that these influencers are having that big of an influence on cyber negotiation. I don't know, this doesn't happen to me that often. I don't really come across people that often that are like doing this terrible stuff that we actually see people online saying. So I think there's like a bit of a divide of, like what goes viral versus what people actually apply in real life, right, like I think that like if the viral stuff was as common in real life, I would constantly be hearing people tell me I can't answer it, I have an NDA, or I would constantly be seeing like the white fonts on resumes like hidden and like I don't actually run into that stuff that often. So I think the same comes with cyber negotiation. I think the truth is most people don't know how to do it and they have a general distrust for companies in HR, and that's really what it comes down to. And you know I think that's hard because you know, like Farrah said, you can get them on your side, you can have them. See. Look, I have the same intention here. We want to fill a role and I think it just comes down to that mistake that a lot of people don't realize. I don't get the extra money I save if I get you to take less of my company. What I am judged on at my job is that I quickly fill the role with a good candidate and you know, if it takes me like going up in the range that we can pay to do that and that's the only way, like then that's what I'm going to do. You know, it's just kind of like we're all on the same side and I think that's the conversation I try and have with candidates is, you know that early talk about it Like here's where we pay, here's what it is Like does that work for you? We're open, we post salaries, we'll talk about it. Does that make sense for you? And then, like if it changes, like Farrah said, like what's changing throughout here, what's going on, but also like clear where we can and can't.

Mike Peditto: 37:16

We had a candidate, you know, a while ago that we gave an offer to at the top of our range, the range work. We talked about the range, great and then they came back and asked for $20,000 more after sort of already getting the top of the range. And I wasn't that shocked by it because I was like this is what people do. I think they just think they have to do this. They think, like I'm supposed to negotiate, it's what you do, and I just nicely was just like hey, like here's where our range came from. This is how levels work in the range. This is where it's coming from.

Mike Peditto: 37:46

We may not offer the top of the range, because I think you are worth the top of the range that we pay, but that's what we pay Like. That is the budget. It's not a made-up number, it's not anything else. We're a company that is open about our salaries and they were like OK, and they took it right Because it's any misinformation out there that I think is actually damaging people. It's not the weird tactics or anything else. It's that general idea that HR is against you when it comes to this, rather than us all on the same page trying to just get this role closed.

Daniel Space: 38:21

Okay, just real quick. One of the things that I try to really push in my content, especially on salary and compensation negotiation that I try to really push in my content, especially on salary and compensation negotiation all elements to it is to destigmatize it and that it really is on company's onus to remove this awkwardness. And so when I work with recruiters, I'll always really encourage them to say, hey, let's just start talking about money, let's get this out in the open. How do we? What are the things I can share with you about compensation? What are the questions that you can ask? Some things I may be able to answer, others I may be not, but let's get you to a place of comfort where this doesn't feel so high pressure for you, because it's not my money, and I think that that's really where a lot of companies struggle and where I think the biggest fix can happen from a systemic place is companies treating employees far more like adults and really opening the platform for conversations about compensation the platform for conversations about compensation.

Warren: 39:15

Well, I was going to ask do you think the being influenced thing is that strictly relegated to the Zoomers? We have that segment on the podcast we call shitting on Zoomers quite regularly, because in my history I don't see too many millennials or Xers, and certainly not boomers, trying to play salary games or play offer negotiation games. You know it seems to be. When I've seen it, it's inevitably the Zoomers, and maybe it's not influencer. Maybe it's mommy and daddy, maybe it's, you know, their, their career counselor at whatever college or university, giving them some bad advice as well as well. But I just observationally no data behind it. I think it seems to be an affliction of the Zoomers versus anybody else.

Mike Peditto: 40:02

Two things. One, you will not catch me on this podcast talking bad about Gen Z. Do not turn any clips into me trying to talk bad about Gen Z. Gen Z, if you are out there, I love you. I'll never say anything bad about you on a podcast and I will never let any audio be taken out of context. Two, that is in reference to something that happened a while back where I had a video go viral where it looked like I was absolutely shitting on Gen Z, but I was not and it was totally out of context and it just like destroyed my life online for a while. Billy eilish's brother, smack, talked him. Billy eilish's brother was coming for me. Um, I didn't even know she had a brother, but, um, that's because I, it's because I hate jenny now, I'm kidding, I didn't say his name, finney f right.

Warren: 40:43

Yeah, I knew it and I'm I'm the oldest guy owned here by a lot.

Mike Peditto: 40:49

I knew that. But the other thing I would say is like I don't think it's bad advice to negotiate, and I don't think it's bad advice, I don't think it's playing games to negotiate. I think that, like you have to listen, you have to make it a conversation, you have to make it like we're working together on a team. But like I don't get offended that anybody, no matter what the age is, because I think people of all ages negotiate. I think we get a little bit madder when young people do it, because it's like well, where do you get off? You must have seen this on TikTok Like how do you earn the right to ask? But in reality, everyone of all ages wants more money. That's universal.

Mike Peditto: 41:24

And I think, like, like I don't get mad that you ask for more money. And what I get mad about is if you say like, hey, if you can get me ten thousand more dollars, I'll take this offer and I do. And then you're like OK, if you can get me ten thousand more dollars to take this offer, that's a game. But like asking for more money on an offer is sort of like that's your chance to do it. You might get told yes, you might get told no, and how do you handle that conversation? But like I always sort of like stray a little bit when I hear kind of the idea of like playing negotiation games. You know, I do think this is your moment to try to get those things. You just have to be like operating good faith and like being smart and having good conversations with people.

Farah Sharghi: 42:03

And I would also say like I don't see it as a generational problem. If anything, I think Gen Z is actually better at asking questions and I've actually had actually one candidate. He's really great questions. I was like they sound a bit familiar. He goes yeah, I found your TikTok channel and I, like Uno, reversed me, which I was really cute. But you know what? What game I really dislike is the one and I've seen this with millennials okay.

Farah Sharghi: 42:32

So if we have to call out a generation where they play this game of like, oh well, you know, I know I might get an offer, but I heard from my manager that I'm going to get promoted. Okay, do you want to stay in your job for another few months? If you do, that's fine, just let me know. I have other people behind you that are I could put forward in the process. So they play this game of like, leveling of like. Well, you know, I'm getting promoted at my job. I'm like you're off cycle. Do you not think I understand what promo cycles look like, especially in big tech? Come on, like when they think I'm stupid is when it's really annoying. That's what's really irritating.

Farah Sharghi: 43:12

And to like I totally agree with everything Mike said Like if somebody comes back and wants more money than I pre-close and say, okay, if I get, well, first of all I always tell them I was like, listen, I don't care how much money you get, I don't care about your offer Again, nervous laughter and I'm like, no, but really it has no impact on me, so I don't care. What I care about is you being happy with your offer, coming in and starting your job and being super happy because then you'll do your best work, which then will make your manager happy and everybody wins. So let's decide what's going to work for you. So if I get you this or better, will you say, yes, I pre-close and I, you know that way, I know in my head okay, this is the watermark. So that way I know if I get a, you know I get the offer back and it's not quite there, I could try to fight. And if it's, if it's there, I'm like great. Then we go back to the candidate.

Cee Cee: 44:01

You know, in the same vein but kind of different, I was having a conversation at work with like two co-workers. Is I, I think of Gen Z and millennial, but more toward the Gen Z side, and this is his first real job. He's and he always like, says it like first big boy job, but now he's been in the role for, I would say, like a year and a half. He's hungry, hungry for promotion. And like it was me, one other person, him, and some of the advice was like, hey, listen, particular company, you know just, you know, just let you know, like this is kind of how the structure goes, especially with a promotion increase.

Cee Cee: 44:40

And then someone was like, oh well, maybe you should just go and say that you have an offer in hand. And I was like, uh, you're gonna like here's the problem with that like you could have an offer in hand, but you better have an offer in hand and you better be ready to like leave because that's a dangerous game. That is like that is playing with fire. And like, yeah, like you don't want to be put in that position because they could turn around and be like oh, good for you Enjoy.

Daniel Space: 45:11

And I actually tried that once and this is why I don't think there's necessarily that much difference in generations because I was once that entitled brat when I was 24. And I went to my manager after I got my first 2.8 percent increase and I was pissed because my co-worker said she got 6 percent and of course I didn't put two and two together. Co-worker said she got six percent and of course I didn't put two and two together. She was hired after I was.

Daniel Space: 45:28

She had a very different role, um, and I said you know, I'm like I was really upset about the salary. I don't feel valued and I'm gonna get an offer that's worth ten thousand dollars one. She was like I'm so happy for you, that's so great, just uh, whenever you're ready, just put your letter in writing. And I had to backpedal that shit. And then, like a month later during a one-on-one, she's like I'm just going to call this out and say I think you tried something that you shouldn't have tried. So let's talk about it out in the open. I'm going to coach you and tell you why you should not do that and tell you how to do that and how to bring that up going forward. So and I think again.

Cee Cee: 45:55

I was super privileged, I had a phenomenal hr mentor, but I think because we just don't teach people how this works in corporations and then people are left to their own devices and I will say, like mom and dad, yeah, we like we were talking about like the generations and I don't I never like to generalize on generation, I'm that person but I will say I think it just has to do where that that group is in their life.

Cee Cee: 46:16

And right now, like the gen z's they were where millennials were like 12 years ago, where we didn't know anything. Like we're trying to go on social media I don't know I'm on live journal, I don't know what I Like we're trying to go on social media. I don't know I'm on LiveJournal, I don't know what I was on at the time, but you're trying to get like all this info, like you're trying to get as much help and guidance as you can. And I'm thinking like my parents to this day, still give me like my 75 year old parents still give me advice on like how I should, what I should do in the corporate office, and blah, blah, blah. Some of it is very sexist and I'm like, ok, well, yeah, like, consider the source when you get advice, especially when you're new to career.

Daniel Space: 46:54

Absolutely yeah, we don't know.

Farah Sharghi: 46:57

Like we don't want to violate any dress codes, which, by the way, that was. I don't know if you guys ever saw that video on TikTok of a young woman who got sent home from an interview because she wore shorts.

Warren: 47:07

Oh, of a young woman who got sent home from an interview because she wore shorts.

Farah Sharghi: 47:11

Oh yeah, I do not see that now. And she was wearing shorts to an interview. Well, it was like they were short, like so. There were shorts that were like mid thigh, like the top part was fine. She was wearing like a white kind of like sweater t-shirt thing, which actually looked nice, but it was like black shorts and I think hr did the right thing, which is I don't want to make the, you know, this candidate uncomfortable with what she's wearing. I'll just reschedule the interview. It's like, you know, hr covers.

Farah Sharghi: 47:36

I don't think people realize how often HR covers for candidates when they do dumb stuff. But the comments though, gen Z's like I don't see a problem with this. I don't see a problem with this. I think that's probably due to a lot of people you know, going through COVID and so they've never, you know, they they were home for several years. They didn't really get to experience like doing an internship app but actually physically app the company you know. So you know they make fun of millennials for our clothing gear looking like business casual. But you know, we got to go from like work to the club, like what are you going to do?

Mike Peditto: 48:11

So much of this stuff is interesting. This is probably a different conversation that like there isn't even time to get into. This sort of like stems from like the like talk that like Farrah joined me for and like I did a talk at RecFest recently and I've been like continuing to adapt for more things I want to do it with. But it was this sort of idea of like it's I. I personally I'm trying to push hiring forward, to ditching these like expectations of like what it's. You know, instead of complaining that the next generation like wants a different ask like does it actually matter? Does it actually affect the space? Like yes, it is in in our minds right now.

Mike Peditto: 48:43

It is odd to come to an interview in shorts because it's not a thing, but like the end of the day, like would it actually fucking matter if this person was like really good at the job? Right, and it's just sort of like. We find ourselves very stuck in these like ways and I understand why I can't just like say this and then like it, just like unfolds. But like I do think that like we continue for each generation moving forward to have managers who are like continue to work with managers, instead of making fun of that idea to be like, yeah, I guess I really don't care, as long as they're not like offensive shorts, right, as long as it's not just like something overtly sexual. You know, it's just sort of like, and I think with that like a lot of things.

Mike Peditto: 49:18

Like there was that viral linkedin thing a while ago of like a candidate in a hoodie and people debating if, like, a candidate could wear a hoodie during a job interview and she's like who cares? Like I wore this like rad dad shirt today during an interview. Like where do I get off saying like you can't wear a hoodie on like a job interview? It doesn't affect anything, unless you're in an environment where you're supposed to be in a suit and tie every day and then you just have to prep candidates, that kind of stuff.

Cee Cee: 49:45

So you know, I just think it early in for Luxottica, which, if you don't know, they own everything optical. But Oakley was part, or is still part, of them. But they moved offices from California into our office here and like the Oakley is athleisure, oakley is, you know, sun, like sun gear, this and that. And I remember like it was such a conflict when the California Oakley people came and they were wearing athleisure to work. And this is like 12 years ago before athleisure was like a thing, so like they just come to work in yoga pants and a t-shirt, but like everyone else at the time was like business casual or like jeans and a plate, like you know, and it was just.

Cee Cee: 50:27

That was a really funny culture shift to see. And then there actually had to be a memo out because some of the leggings were too thin and you could actually like see underwear and underwear lines. So that memo had to go out to be like, okay, well, at least wear thick leggings. But it's funny because even at that time I mean I I was in my mid-20s at that time and I was like it was scandalous like wearing leggings to the office. And now I mean I work from home and I'm always in leggings?

Mike Peditto: 50:56

I never am not in leggings it's almost this idea of like what does professional mean? And like everyone kind of debates that and and like. To me, the idea of professional is like you do a good job and you don't like interfere with other people's abilities to do a good job. So if you say, like clothes are too thin and I can just like see your underwear when you walk in, you could argue, yes, that interferes with, like the office's ability to function, but like you being in a pair of sweatpants or leggings in general like should, in theory, have no impact on how anybody works. We've just sort of like decided that it does. It's kind of interesting.

Cee Cee: 51:31

Yeah.

Warren: 51:32

Well, me being the old guy in the room and we had this discussion earlier on another podcast, my son and I. He's a senior in college and he's I'm sending him. Well, he was supposed to go to internship interviews but Hurricane Helene happened out in Western North Carolina, so it didn't happen. But before school started I took him to the door okay, we're going to get you a nice set of clothes to wear for your internship, job fair. And he that's probably one of the biggest fights we've had.

Warren: 52:03

My son and I don't really fight. That was one of the biggest fights we've had in a long time. He's like they don't care what I wear. I said, yes, they do. And he's like, oh, I said, but the people making the hiring decisions are my age. They think my way a lot of times.

Warren: 52:17

It doesn't hurt to put your best foot forward and ultimately I gave up. I said, screw it, you do what you're going to do, but if you just happen to get an and a tie when it comes to going to the actual in-person interview, if you can ever get one, well, no, job fair because of, like I said, hurricane Helene. But that was actually an argument between my son and I. I said hey, let's get you some nice. I wasn't even going for a suit at the job fair. I said let's get you some nice slacks, let's get you a polo. You can wear some cool hey dudes that go with it. With it, that's fine, I don't care about that. And he's like fighting me and fighting me in front of me, like okay, I gave up after some point and I was like you know, you knew you do need an internship to graduate, you know, and you're a senior, so let's uh do the math here yeah, there's an interesting.

Mike Peditto: 53:05

There's an interesting split with this kind of advice in general, and I I get into this with the job seekers all the time. Well, it shouldn't be that way, it should be this way. The truth is it is what it is. So, like that's the thing is like you can tell job seekers one thing, because, like this is what's going to put you in the best position. But then I also think the other side is like working with managers to just like care less about that, like over time, but like right now, you're right. It tells them like no, you don't do this. Well, I should be able to. Okay, great, I agree with you, you should be able to, but I also want to put you in the best position to get a job today. So I'm telling you like not to do it. And I think that's where that like line comes in when people argue for this stuff.

Farah Sharghi: 53:41

Well, I was going to say, as a recruiter, I would tell my candidates because, you know, usually the first water, two interviews are virtual or it's over the phone. So when I'm prepping them for their onsites, I'm like let's talk about wardrobe and I would give them it's like look by the way. Whenever I would tell my gentlemen because I was always very specific I was like okay, do you have a checkered dress shirt? If they said yes, I was like great. They said no, I'm like that's okay, don't worry, just asking.

Farah Sharghi: 54:09

So I'd tell them head to toe like wear a checkered shirt, wear, you know, if you have jeans, like a dark wash is nice, you know, have a belt, maybe some smart sneakers or this, and like, with this particular role, they were going into a building that has concrete floors and so the concern is, if the candidate comes in and there's concrete floors, you don't want them to slip and fall and hurt themselves.

Farah Sharghi: 54:31

So it's like it was more about like yes, you don't want them to slip and fall and hurt themselves. So it's like it was more about like, yes, you know, I want you to be put your best foot forward. For the ladies, I was like, okay, just wear like a color that, next to your face, that's very flattering, that you feel comfortable in. Just know that the rooms are very cold, so you do need to layer. Also, please don't wear high heels because of the concrete floor. I don't want you to slip and hurt yourself. Oh, okay, so it was kind of like I kind of integrated that as like part of the prep so, again, they don't hurt themselves and, like you know, make themselves feel uncomfortable. Well, I guess that's what a good recruiter should be doing.

Cee Cee: 55:04

Yes, I was saying like you never know. I play both sides of that because it's like I want you to feel authentic, I want you to feel's like. I want you to feel authentic, I want you to feel comfortable, I want you to feel like you, but at the same time, you don't know who's receiving you on the other end. Like I have a piercing in my nose and I have tattoos, if I'm going to go to an interview, I'm not going to show those things because I don't know how that person like what judgments, what by have. And honestly, like when you're in the role, when you're rocking, when you're doing a good job, let the tattoos fly, you know. Like wear those shorts to work. Who cares? Because you're in the role and you're doing well and therefore like you're part of it. It's like when you're trying to get in, play it safe, like why are we gambling?

Farah Sharghi: 55:53

yes, absolutely I was also going to say to your point cc like I like with my ladies, if I, if I notice, if I'm on a video call and they're wearing like dangly earrings or like really bold jewelry, I'm like listen, super cute. However, this is super distracting, like big, sparkly earrings as you're moving, like it's gonna like distract the interviewer and you don't want to do that. Also, if you have big bracelets or bangles, if it hits the table, it's gonna make a lot of noise, like we don't want to do that, so just like, leave it at home. You know, I'm sure it's super cute, but like we don't need that today. They're like oh, that makes sense. So if, like, if you back it up with some logic, they're like oh, actually you know what You're right. Not saying I'm right or wrong, but I just want them to do their best, yeah.

Warren: 56:41

Well, I think this is a pretty good place to land the plane, if you will. It's been a lot of fun, guys, and I definitely would love to have you all come back again sometime in the future, because these are the type of hr conversations I really want to be having. So hr is not necessarily the bad guy, that we're out there recruiters doing a good job in trying to help the candidates actually get the job, versus the recruiters out there just to screw me and ghost me and you know whatever else that you see online and things like that. So these are the conversations I want to have. We can still have fun. We can be jaded. We can have fun with it. Just the same, it doesn't have to be crazy or anything like that.

Warren: 57:22

So one thing I didn't do earlier I did not thank our Patreon supporters. Our Patreon supporters Hallie, the original Jaded HR rock star, bill and Michael. So thank you for supporting us on Patreon. It really helps, and if any of you else wants to support us, go to Patreon. There's the links in our show notes. We'll also put a link to the Corporate Pizza Party podcast in our show notes so you can follow them, and I'll put a link to all of your social media accounts as well in the show notes, so you can definitely, if you don't. Everybody already follows them, so if you don't already, you can find them quick and easy and give them a follow online as well. So, y'all, thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate any final words you want to. You know, talk about yourselves. Corporate pizza party floor is yours, go for it.

Daniel Space: 58:11

I just wanted to thank both of you. Thanks so much for the invitation, thanks for being flexible. It's always such a pleasure. You guys are great, and thank you to your Patreon supporters and we hope to continue to collaborate together, yes.

Farah Sharghi: 58:22

Thank you so much for having us. It was fun.

Mike Peditto: 58:25

Yeah, this was a good time. At the end of our podcast, we do this, except we do this, except we ask if you have any reservations about this episode Speaking of more bad advice, telling people the things to do at the end. So I have no reservations, although I feel like I did just watch Warren spend like 10 minutes in my shoes. I'm usually trying to wrangle everyone to stop talking so he can wrap this up. So thank you for having us and thank you to your Patreon supporters, and this was a lot of fun.

Warren: 58:48

All right. Well, we will try and get this done again sometime, not in the terribly distant future. Before we go, I want to sign off by saying the intro. The voice artist in our intro is Andrew Kolpa. I want to thank him for that, and the intro and outro music is Double the Double by the Underscore Orchestra. So, as always, I'm Warren.

Cee Cee: 59:08

I'm Cece.

Daniel Space: 59:10

I'm Dan from HR.

Farah Sharghi: 59:11

I'm Farrah Shorty. I'm Mike. I'm Cece. I'm Dan from HR. I'm Farrah Shorty.

Warren: 59:14

I'm Mike Pedito and we're here helping you survive HR one. What the fuck moment at a time. Bye, everyone, bye.