SHRM's Blueprint for an Overpriced Dumpster Fire

Welcome to Jaded HR, where we say everything you’re thinking out loud.

This week, Warren and Cee Cee dive deep into the cesspool of professional absurdity. We tackle everything from the shocking politicization of HR to a debate so ill-conceived it smells like a dumpster fire.

What We Raged About This Week:

• SHRM’s $1,300 Blueprint to Hell: We try to stay apolitical, but SHRM is forcing our hand by hosting a debate between CNN's Van Jones and Heritage Foundation's Robby Starbuck, who calls DEI "communist" and a "poison." Is this an earnest discussion or just a desperate, badly timed publicity stunt? (We lean heavily toward the latter.)
• SHRM’s Identity Crisis: Why does the world’s largest HR organization keep acting like a political lobbying group instead of a resource for practitioners? Cee Cee even details the generic form letter she got after canceling her membership.
• Faith-Based Hypocrisy: Warren shares a schadenfreude story about a "true believer" business owner who lost a massive contract on day one, thanks to a well-deserved morality clause and a whole lot of cussing. We love to see it.
• The HR Rights of Passage: We create a cynical checklist of the things all true HR professionals must deal with, including the inevitable hygiene talk (and how the smell of vanilla body spray combined with old ashtray smoke can break a man).
• The Gen Z Stare & Mama’s Helper: Is the new generation of job candidates okay? Cee Cee recounts a chilling, soul-empty experience with a grocery store worker, while Warren's daughter has to deal with applicants whose moms are sitting in on the interview. (Seriously, go practice your active shooter drills instead.)
• COVID-19 Wednesdays: We share a bonus story about an affinity group we are not going to start: the work-from-home Wednesday Orgy club. Don't worry, the drama was captured on a corporate laptop.

Join us as we help you survive HR, one "what the f*ck" moment at a time.

Chapters

• 0:00 Content Warning, Intros, Housekeeping
• 1:42 Setting The Stage: Politics-Adjacent Talk
• 2:35 SHRM Blueprint: The Price and The Pitch
• 3:26 The Debate: Van Jones vs. Robbie Starbuck
• 5:08 DEI Backlash, Bad Training, And The Moment We’re In
• 7:50 Is SHRM Politicizing HR?
• 9:15 Who Should Lead: Boards, Votes, Alternatives
• 11:10 Phone-Locking Events and Controlling The Narrative
• 12:04 Faith-Branding, Morality Clauses, And Hypocrisy
• 14:25 Performance Reviews, Deadlines, And Participation
• 15:41 Can Hygiene Be Performance Feedback?
• 17:03 HR Rites of Passage: The Wild Cases
• 18:22 Training Gone Wrong: Red Cross and Shooter Drills
• 20:52 Hiring Etiquette: Parents in Interviews
• 22:38 Generational Moments: The Gen Z Stare
• 24:13 House Hunting, “Smells Like Old People,” And Closing

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:02

Had you actually read the email, you would know that the podcast you are about to listen to could contain explicit language and offensive content. These HR experts of views are not representative of their past, present, or future employers. If you've ever heard, my manager is unfair to me, I need you to reset my HR portal password, or can I ride up my employee for crying too much?

SPEAKER_01: 0:27

Welcome to our little slave zone. Welcome to JadedHR.

SPEAKER_00: 0:49

Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals who want to help you get through the workday by saying everything you're thinking, but say it out loud. I'm Warren. I'm CC. Alright. So crazy, crazy couple of weeks. Even, you know, before we recorded the last episode, things were getting crazy. We're going to dive adjacent to some of the craziness. I d I don't want to, you know, I I don't like talking politics too much on the the podcast. I don't like religion talking on the podcast, but we're gonna go adjacent to both, I think, in here as we as we move forward. So yeah, it's gonna be an interesting episode, I think.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33

It's just my my quiet rage.

SPEAKER_00: 1:37

Oh, don't be quiet about it. That's that's what that's what they're here for. Uh let's see here. Before you before we get started, thank our Patreon supporters, Hallie, the original JHR rock star, Bill and Mike. And if you want to support us, go to the links. There's show notes, you can support us. But please also, if you don't want to give us money, leave us a review, give us a heart on your podcast player, do something as it helps others find us and grow. So and we've we had a really good growth month last month. I showed you some stats. We had it was actually a very, very high month in terms of episode download. So that was that was very good. I I would hope that October continues the trend.

SPEAKER_03: 2:17

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:19

Yeah. So where to start? I I think we ought to start with Sherm because let's go there. So we're gonna we're gonna trying to stay apolitical here, but everybody on LinkedIn is talking about the the Sherm, I forget what they are calling blueprint. The Sherm blueprint. Yeah. And you told me the price to attend these blueprint things is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04: 2:45

I Oh yeah. I I I think it's like thirteen hundred thirteen hundred dollars right now. I think that was the price I saw.

SPEAKER_00: 2:53

I mean, that's really pricing it out of range for practitioners, but I can see uh and I'll I'll get into my opinion on the situation later, but I can see all the HR consultants. Hey, it's it's a business expense, they can write it off, and it's not as important. But if you're you know, I've worked multiple places where I work now, supports my Sherm membership and pays for that and would pay for seminars uh and things like that for me, but I I I don't see a lot of companies uh you know really shelling out the money for something like this. So I think it's gonna be a lot of the non-practitioner consultants and the other people I love and and this type thing.

SPEAKER_03: 3:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:36

So for those of you who are uninitiated, there is going to be a debate on the at Sherm Blueprint in Louisville, Kentucky on October 26th to 29th. Okay, three days for twelve hundred dollars. But one of the big things is and it titled this A Dialogue You Won't See Anywhere Else. Two Perspectives, one conversation on diversity and inclusion. And the the speakers are Van Jones, CNN host, founder of Rap Report Company and DreamMachine.org. And on the other side is Robbie Starbuck, the head of Capital Markets Heritage Foundation. And I saw this maybe three weeks ago for the first time, and you know, with all the the I'll I'll just go ahead and say it, the Charlie Kirk things going on, and it it the rhetoric around the very first post I saw about this coming from Sherm, well I I bet you it's probably been taken down, was just really I don't know what uh the right word is. It was inflammatory. Comments all over the place. Oh yeah. I couldn't tell you who either of these people were before this, but apparently people have uh posted quotes and of what's this Robbie Starbuck, and he has said things like DEI is immoral and DEI is communist, and things like that. So is that true? Yeah, maybe, probably. I don't know. I don't I don't care really that much. My my care level on this is rather low. But I here's where I want to try and play double devil's advocate and applaud Sherm, in that I like the idea of having a debate of people with opposing viewpoints who can, you know, I I don't I'm I'm not young anymore. Uh my views on life, the universe, and everything are pretty well set. It's going to take a lot to make me change my my views on anything. So this debate, if it's done well, can be really, really good. If it's not done well, we're talking dumpster fire to the extreme. And because I like I like hearing debates of people I disagree with. Now, I'm not one of those people that's going to yell down someone, oh, you can't say that because who knows what reason. But I I like that. I some of my best times ever are having a couple drinks with friends. Is like I said, I'm fiercely independent. Nobody agrees with me on you know more than two or three topics. Oh, we'll agree on this, we'll agree with that, and then we're not going to agree on too much more. But I love having those conversations with people, especially over a couple of drinks and things like that. As long as the people can, you know, okay, whatever. Warren's full of shit, but whatever, you know, and and not take it personal. Those are some actually really great times sometimes. But uh totally agree.

SPEAKER_04: 6:39

That's fun. This person, though, that's my question.

SPEAKER_00: 6:44

Like now, have you heard of Robbie Starbuck before this?

SPEAKER_04: 6:49

I had not until I did some digging. This I'm gonna be honest, the second I heard that he was with the Heritage Foundation, I think my ears perked up.

SPEAKER_00: 6:59

And I have no idea what the Heritage Foundation stands for and is about or any. I'm sure, based on all the comments, I'm sure it's a right-wing think tank of some sort.

SPEAKER_04: 7:08

It is, and they they do really are one of the big funders of Project 2025. So they're like personally for me, they're not my favorite foundation. So to kind of hear that, I was like, oh, who is this guy? And then when I did some more digging, just hearing some of the stuff that he has to say. Like, like you mentioned before, like he says DEI is a poison and we won't rest until the public knows how companies have strayed from American values. I mean, he has other like things against the transgender community, the LGBTQ community, he has accused Dr. Fauci or has said Dr. Fauci is a mass murderer. Like, he's just kind of like why him? I under like I I totally agree that a a good debate with up opposing viewpoints is important, but having someone who has said things that are so polarizing, but also against such marginalized communities, like you're you're literally gonna bring the antithesis of DEI in. And I feel like I mean at that point, screw it. Like, why don't you skip over Mr. Starbuck and just have a clans member in there? I don't know. Like, if you want to talk about opposing viewpoints, but the point is that people feel so passionately about their points of view that for me, I don't think that having a discussion with this individual is going to really like change anybody's mind. I think people are very sensitive right now to a lot of these things.

SPEAKER_00: 8:53

I mean, you know, last two weeks the sensitivity has just gone it it's on 11 right now. And it actually more than more than just like I said, Charlie Kirk, there's been just a lot of stupid shit happening in the world. Again, it's nothing new, but if the more these things happen, the more the sensitivity gets dialed up. And you know, it you gotta like they say, read the room. And I don't know if the room is quite uh there yet. But I I I hope we're wrong, and I hope this Starbuck guy can have a good discussion and not get, you know, stuck in ideolog ideology. Boy, I can't say that word right now, and and just you know regurgitate party lines or whatever it is on DEI. You know, I I'm I'm just I'm morbidly curious at this point. I really uh you know uh I really want to know, but I I uh there's uh no way I'd pay any money to see this. I I hope that there's enough people that do go and maybe post about it that we can get a true and accurate opinion of what uh what went down with it.

SPEAKER_04: 10:09

So I know. And just so like this is uh I have so many oh never mind. I'm not going down there. All I know is that this I feel like this is just some stupid like this is such a badly timed, ill conceived publicity stunt. That's what I feel this is. Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 10:32

And on top of that, Sherm. Is gonna be uh Sherm is politicizing HR. Uh and like I said, I don't agree with well over half of the stuff Sherm is politicizing one way. I think they're turning more into a political lobbying animal than a uh a resource for HR professionals uh to to utilize and bring bring them together. I think they're causing a lot of rift in between uh HR professionals overall. And well, I'll go to that this next, but you know, on on I think part of the problem and the reason we need to have this discussion is because DEI in in wake of the Brianna case, the uh the George Floyd case, all those things that happened back to back to back, which made G DEI go from not even on the back burner, it was still in the pantry somewhere, to first uh front first and foremost, we had so many of these HR professional consultants who put out some really bad shit and some of it was bought into by the government. We've seen the stories of just this It's like someone who had zero clue about DEI at all, and uh and in many ways, thou those are the things that bad DEI made every DEI since then worse because or it go fall under the gr worse scrutiny.

SPEAKER_04: 12:07

So if Yeah, there's some there were some bad DEI practitioners who came out in that first wave.

SPEAKER_00: 12:14

And they're the same people that are gonna jump on the next wave, whatever that might be, uh after the DEI goes back to the back burner and some new hot topic is up, they're gonna be the expert on whatever and write 30 books and do keynote speeches and things like that. And but they uh i i if DEI was done well from the beginning, it this wouldn't be as much of an issue. There'll still be issues because there's gonna be all those backwards, there's still backwards people, and there's nothing we're gonna do to fix the backwards people in the world uh as human resource professionals, other than not hire them and get them the hell out of our companies as as soon as they are they reveal themselves. But no, they're is yeah, it I just think that I we we started the game from you know already losing because of the way it was it was done, and uh it we can't play catch-up in the yeah and then people and once again never heard of this Robbie Starbuck before, but people like him have maybe glammed on to some of the worst bits of that bad DEI training for whatever reason, maybe you know, it agree he agrees with some of it, or he thinks it was done so badly. I I have no idea what his view, you know. I feel like I said, I figure he's pretty far right, but I have no idea where he's coming from in that. And that's what sort of gives me the morbid curiosity. And this Van Jone person, I have no idea anything about him. I I don't watch any news channel. I walk by the my news uh consumption of news TV is when I walk through the lobby of my work and we have all the wonderful channels playing, whether it's Fox or CNN or whomever else, they're all playing, and that's where my my big ticket news comes from. But yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 14:04

It's crazy. I do want to I do want to make a a a statement that I got so disappointed in Sherm over the Robbie Starbuck of it all that I did write them a strongly worded letter.

SPEAKER_00: 14:16

And you will never get a response from that.

SPEAKER_04: 14:19

I did. I got a response. Was it a a blank a form letter or was it it was I I have to say that it was like some kind of a form letter. In any case, like it was Yeah, it was just it looked like it was just something that they were like, oh crap, we're gonna get so many of these, like just copy paste all day. And I think because it came to the Robbie Starbuck form letter in the I think they did, and and yeah, so I I I was like, my membership is coming up shortly, and I don't think I'm gonna be renewing. So and they're like, so sorry, please reconsider, like we understand, we valid different viewpoints, blah blah blah. Like it was it was just very like what a generic.

SPEAKER_00: 15:09

Yeah. I and going to another topic, Sherm itself. I I like I said, I don't believe they're they're advocating for HR professionals anymore. I I I do not believe that anymore. But what company out there is in the in the you know the air apparent spot? There's I I I like a lot of the stuff I see on hacking HR. I'm trying to think of the other HR website that I follow that has some good information. It's apolitical, because like I said, I I get turned off very quickly when the polic uh politics gets turned on. And especially for something like Sherm. I there's no no need for that. But oh gosh, what is hacking HR? What's the other one? Oh, I'll I'll have to remember. Anyways, but is there another company that can come in and fill the boots and be there as the company to, you know, say that, hey, we are the the company that I think it's gonna be different now.

SPEAKER_04: 16:14

I think I mean look at what AI's doing. Like, are these kind of are these organizations really gonna be that necessary? I mean, you can get an answer, like you can open up Chat GPT and you can get like drafts of forms and drafts of policies, and and I mean you have to fact check everything. You can do whatever you want. Like, you don't need Sherm's database anymore of templates. You don't need their articles anymore because the funny part is is you can backend those articles in like Chat GPT and AI. Like you can ask it to summarize an article that might be like paywalled. Yeah, like there's just no more, there's just no more use for it. And I think you're right, they're no longer a resource for professionals, they are I I see them turning into like a lobbying organization. And and and that's that's the crazy part for me about the whole Robbie Starbuck and the Heritage Foundation and the connection with Project 2025, because that is literally like like that basically is, especially when we talk about you know, DEI and and and stuff in the workplace, like just taking back like pay equality policies and weakening gender discrimination protections and eliminating like all these kind of things that would assist in childcare, family leave, and all that kind of stuff. And it's like that is so ant like, and I get it, I'm not like naive. Like I know HR serves both the employees and the company, right? There's that loop. And they should. But I mean, that that those kind of things and those kind of policies that they're like trying to put out there are just like so anti-HR. It's like it's just ridiculous. It's I don't know. I think such a shit decision, Sharon.

SPEAKER_00: 18:13

Yeah. Oh, it is.

SPEAKER_04: 18:14

They just want the publicity.

SPEAKER_00: 18:16

Yes. And and I think that's another thing. They do like the publicity. They do like, you know, there's no such thing as bad publicity. I think they sort of fall into that that little old mantra of some sort. So but the next thing and we were talking about online, I've been getting inundated or not inundated. I've gotten a a few things lately on the board of directors for SHERM. And oh yeah, it's it's very ironic. Uh, you know, I tell you, I've been in HR for, you know, gosh, more than twenty-five years now. I've been a member of SHERM for probably close to 15 to 20, it's fifteen of those years probably. And and most of the time I did pay for it myself when I was with one employer who didn't support it, but uh most of the time it's been employer paid. But I've never voted. I don't even know who the board of directors are. I don't know who is is you know is running and what their backgrounds are and why they would be a good person for the board of director. And I think I fall right in lockstep with uh however many other hundreds of thousands of Sherm members there are. I don't think that people know this stuff. And maybe, maybe now that it is time to vote for that, maybe we should actually take a look at these people's background and not just what Sherm sends us. You know, do do your cyber stalking, find out who these people are, and and then next election cycle, start getting people involved who might be a better thing. I was telling you offline, someone I would love to see on the board of directors, maybe Kate Bischoff. She would be incredible, she's very opinionated, she's very smart, she has a HR background. I think she would be and she's very anti-Sherm. I think she might be the the the firebrand boat rocker they they might need. But I don't know if she has any interest or anything like that. But I just know from her old podcast and following her on LinkedIn and stuff, she's got some very strong opinions on Sherm and what they are and are not doing. So yeah, that's that's that's where we are with this the state of Sherm uh right now.

SPEAKER_03: 20:34

But state of Sherm.

SPEAKER_00: 20:36

I'm I'm really I I do want to see at the end of the month how this all plays out and how it went. And maybe Sherm will put some video clips on there, some unbiased video clips that are, you know, not editing it to make one person look great and the other look bad. Is that okay? Once again, not affiliated with any party. If I watch CNN, they put the most awful looking picture of Trump who looks like he's been constipated for two months and just ate Taco Bell or something like that. And but uh they'll put the most beautiful picture of AOC on there, and you look at the next monitor, they have this really strong, tough macho Trump picture and AOC looking like she just strepped out of a trailer park fire. And and it it it it's those type of things, just the imagery. Like I said, there's no volume on there. There's it's just the imagery, they're gonna find these worst stock photos. You know, the left is gonna find the worst stock photos of people on the right, and vice versa. And it it's just when I see those type pictures, it just it before I've seen a word, it turns me off.

SPEAKER_04: 21:38

And I'm like, oh gosh, yeah, what it just I wonder if they're going to do if they're gonna make people lock their phones in those like bags so no one can record it.

SPEAKER_00: 21:48

Oh, have they done something like that before? Sherm?

SPEAKER_04: 21:51

Oh, so I went to go, I saw John Stewart a few a couple months ago. Uh huh. And he like did a live performance here, but like they had these bags, and you had when you walked in, you had to put your bag and your Apple Watch in this little thing and it locked, and it couldn't be unlocked until you exited, and they had to have like this magnetic thing to unlock it. But it was to prevent people from videotape, like videotaping. I know Dave Chappelle does that and his shows up here in Yellow Spring, but like it's there, you know, it's becoming more and more of a practice, and I'm thinking, I'm thinking if they're gonna lock it down because this is getting so much publicity, and they probably don't want people like doing what doing what you kind of just said of just one way or another just making it the worst thing. So and they can also, you know, do a do a stream of it for you know forty-five dollars.

SPEAKER_00: 22:48

I would not pay forty-five dollars. I want to see.

SPEAKER_04: 22:59

You put up three? Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 23:00

I'll put up three if they they want to stream it for three dollars. But no, I I first I hadn't heard of that locked bag thing. I think that's an incredible idea. I didn't think they should do it at movie theaters and other venues where the public is.

SPEAKER_04: 23:15

And can I tell you, it was a little freeing. Like we were in that venue and we had nothing to do except talk to each other. Like we were with a group of friends, and it was just like we didn't have our phones to look at, and then you didn't have to worry about someone like trying to sneak a picture, and then their screen is like in the way. I loved it. I think all concerts, well, not all concerts, but I think a lot of things should should start going.

SPEAKER_00: 23:42

I like that. No, I'm assuming you have to turn your phone off first because I I could see it's locked, and now it's you've got a loud, annoying ringtone, and there's nothing you can do that's going off. But that that's that's pretty cool. I hadn't heard of that. That's I like that.

SPEAKER_04: 23:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 23:58

Okay, well, let's continue to tiptoe across lines that we don't normally do, and we did politics. We're gonna we're politic adjacent. Let's do religious adjacent now.

SPEAKER_04: 24:09

Ooh, this is I feel like this is Thanksgiving dinner. We're doing the politics and religion.

SPEAKER_00: 24:15

Oh gosh. So I'm gonna try uh I I I don't want to fend I honestly I don't want to offend anybody, but I'm sure something I'm gonna say is going to offend people. But uh a person I know has a company that is they portray as a faith-based company. Their their business cards, their their signage and things all will have various Bible verses on it, and the owner of this company really touts himself as a uh I want to say holder in that art thou art because that's that's has some negative commentations, but as a as a true believer who you know I I don't know what the right word is, but he he wants you know he is in God's favor, I guess. He wants everybody to think that he that's how he is. Well, this this company won a really massive award from another faith-based Oh oh this company won a another very massive award from another faith base faith-based company, and then you know what happened? Day one, they're out at the client site performing their services, and the owner, Mr. you know, God's BFF or whatever you want to say, is there cussing out his employees and like laying into them, and the CEO of the company they're working for walks up, records it, doesn't say anything to him, goes in the building and finds out who is this company, they're gone. And because when they signed their contract for the the the the company the the company they engaged signed their contract, the company also had them sign a morality clause associated with it. So and they lost on day the first day of performing this contract, they lost it because the owner is, you know, hypocritical, we'll say.

SPEAKER_03: 26:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:23

Yeah. And and was berating his people and things like that. But I I back the story up. I I run across the this person every few years, and we don't we're not close. I you know, it's not my cup of tea or anything like that. But about five-ish years ago, we had a conversation, and he actually asked me some HR question, is what brought this all up. And I said, Well, while we're talking about it, I said, your signage is at the time, his signage, his business cards, is everything in the world like that, had something to the extent of the industry he worked in, works in, is notorious for mm maybe not hiring legal people and or people who don't speak English. So, anyways, their signage and their business cards said something to the effect of you can always call us and and understand us because we only hire Americans that speak English. Something to that effect. That's probably way more verbose than it actually said. But I said, look, uh when he's answering Yeah, exactly. When he's uh asking me the HR question, I said, Look, you're gonna want to change that little slogan to something else because uh that's outright saying that you're discriminating against anybody who's not uh an American. It did say something we only hire Americans who speak English, but I don't remember what the the rest of it is. But I said uh they're gonna not hire someone and they're just gonna point to your business card, point to your sign, point to your website, and say, hey, tell me they didn't discriminate against me. And actually they did they did change that. But you know, sometimes you like seeing people fail. I d I I halfway want to like seeing this person fail, but I I you know just because they're a hypocrite, you know, they've never done anything bad to me, uh other than be just be annoying. But uh so I don't they're not someone that yeah, I want to see this person fail. You're just not my cup of children.

SPEAKER_04: 28:20

Just kind of like a chuckle, like a little serves you right type thing.

SPEAKER_00: 28:27

So, anyways. Well, while I'm into do you have anything? I'm just feeling like I can go. Or do you have anything? I don't want to.

SPEAKER_04: 28:35

I know, I'm like thinking like I got nothing this week. I got nothing.

SPEAKER_00: 28:40

Okay, I don't I am blank headed. No, it it's been that type of week for me too. I did uh but I didn't want to just leave you out of anything. But no, no, no, no. We launched for the ride.

SPEAKER_04: 28:53

I'm being a passenger princess today.

SPEAKER_00: 28:57

My my company launched their annual reviews a couple of weeks ago. And we're going to work so good.

SPEAKER_04: 29:06

In October?

SPEAKER_00: 29:08

Yeah, they're effective January, the one. So yeah, that's next year that's gonna be my big change. This year, my big change to our annual review is uh we're only we're only giving our employees four weeks to complete their self-evaluation. I want that to be two weeks. You can you can do it in two days.

SPEAKER_04: 29:27

You can do it.

SPEAKER_00: 29:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 29:29

You can do it. Because here's the thing if it takes someone two weeks to do it, it's gonna take them four weeks to do it. So just do it at two.

SPEAKER_00: 29:39

Well, they're not gonna get a choice because through the you can set up workflows in our HRS system for the review on day twenty nine, their review will be advanced to their manager without their input. So we're 'cause uh at historically at that four week mark hunting thirty, forty people down. I need you to do your review, new do your review, do your review. And I I just I just said to the president and the COO, I said, I'm not chasing these people down. This is their performance review. If they don't want to participate in it, I said, you know, we're giving them the opportunity, but I don't want to force them. If they don't want to do it, and I my opinion is that if you don't participate, you should not be able to get anything above satisfactory. Satisfactory is becomes your cap. That's my opinion. We're not enforcing that, but uh if you don't submit on time, and there's no way to back it out. I I did I kinda sorta it was a happy accident that I realized that okay, so John Doe, he had a you know four weeks of bad luck and couldn't get it done over four weeks. I can't back it. I I would I could cancel it and relaunch it. I could always do that, but there's no easy way to back it up. So yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to it. But I was thinking there's one criteria that is not on our performance review that I would love to see on on Performance Review, and it is personal hygiene. I I run across somebody on the regular who smells like the wonderful mixture of a old lady's ashtray and vanilla body spray. And one or the other by itself is already stomach turning. And but the combination, it has a synergistic effect, and it's coward take me away. Can make me want to hurl sometimes. And I just I know so many smokers who hide their scent, their their smoking smell very, very well. I was actually worked with somebody for years before I found out they smoked, and I actually asked them, I said, when did you start smoking? When I was like 16. I was like, I had no earthly clue. And I'm sensitive to cigarette smoke. I if you're five cars in front of me and smoking, I can smell it on the highway or something like that. Just like nowadays I smell marijuana all the time. You drive anywhere, you always smell marijuana and things like that.

SPEAKER_04: 32:09

Oh, is that is that legal there too? Because same here.

SPEAKER_00: 32:12

In Virginia, it is. North Carolina, not so much, but it doesn't matter. Uh it's been decriminalized. So you if you do something else stupid, they'll tack it on, but they're not just going to arrest you for recreational use. But anyway. So it anyways, but I just the personal hygiene. If I do i i I can see personal hygiene being part of your your review if you're like a very customer focused person and and things like that. Like a masseuse. If a masseuse came in to me stinking like anything, just uh having a noxious smell or looking like they haven't bathed or something like that. Someone who's like that, who's actually touching me and that close to me, that would be a huge problem. But you know, in the office setting, hygiene, I I don't know.

unknown: 33:01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 33:03

Have you ever had to have a discussion with an employee about their hygiene?

SPEAKER_00: 33:08

Absolutely. Absolutely. It goes up there with the the poop and the porn and everything else of uh of HR rites of passage. That is that is one of them. We have to make I'll make a cynical meme one day of the HR rights of passage. You aren't a HR a true HR professional until you've dealt with poop. Porn. Hi, Gene. I don't know what else to throw in there, but I can come up with some more for that. So you do you can't call yourself a uh uh shr professional until you've dealt with all the above.

SPEAKER_04: 33:47

My friend had to deal with the uh the the COVID the COVID-19 Wednesday orgies.

SPEAKER_00: 33:56

Okay. I've never heard of a Wednesday orgy on COVID.

SPEAKER_04: 34:02

No one else did until they realized that a bunch of their employees while working from home were actually meeting up on Wednesdays working remotely from the same house and then during their non-meeting times just having sex. And it was like a group of about like eight.

SPEAKER_00: 34:20

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_04: 34:21

And yeah, so she had to deal with that.

SPEAKER_00: 34:24

How do you form that affinity group at work? Yeah. I I tried desperately, we're my company is is over thirty percent veteran. I tried desperately to form a veterans affinity group. And nobody they didn't care. I we had the same per we had three meetings. We had the same one person show up to all three meetings, and then after everybody's like, yeah, they we yeah, we this nobody's interested. But like, how do you how do you form that affinity group, the the swingier the swingers club or the Wednesday Orgy affinity group? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 35:05

And then the and then the really crazy thing, uh that wasn't crazy enough, if I believe correctly, like one of the individuals also well, one of the individuals was doing this behind their wife's back. And of course gotta go to the office today. Yeah, gotta go in to gotta go in the office today. And he was so and even though he was cheating on her, he was convinced that she was cheating on him. So he was actively tracking his wife and like all these really personal details, like her menstrual cycle, like everything. And it was all on his work laptop. So when they ended up like firing everyone, like going through their laptops, they were like, What the fuck is this? Like, I can't. I I wouldn't So which one of those so which one of those like checks the mark? Like what what checks the best story I get?

SPEAKER_00: 36:01

Well, you you need to I guess there has to be something about sexual harassment and sexual issues at work, I guess. Okay, I've told this story a number of times. I I had a situation, I wasn't very close to the VP of HR where at one place I worked. I honestly, even though I reported directly to her, I would see her four or five times a year. I would talk to her on the phone maybe once a month. Didn't you know in my what my second performance review, I said, I'm sort of going on the the assumption here that no news is good news and everything's going hunky-dory, and she said, Yeah, sorry, and she apologized and said she'd be more active and things, but uh uh she did she had a lot on her plate and uh wasn't really able to do that. But I told the story so I was A new there and I had a uh a sexual harassment issue I was looking into, and I I was giving her my I did my report and I was giving her my feedback and I'm making it the report PG 13. And she just looks at me and she says, Those aren't the words that were said. And I said, No, they weren't. I said, she goes, I need to know the words that were said. And I took that piece of paper and I'm covering my face as I'm saying things like I got your mama swinging from my balls. Oh no. And things like that. I I can't that I remember that phrase very specifically, but uh I I couldn't look her in the eye and say these things. I just I couldn't do it. Well, we had last we do first aid AED CPR training at my work. Your certification's good for two years, but we do it every year because people are in different reviews or cycles for that certification. Uh 2024, we got a trainer who was extremely inappropriate. I don't know if I discussed this on the from the American Red Cross. We got this trainer that was extremely inappropriate. And she's uh when you're getting down to work on the mannequin and give the chest compressions and things like that, she says she one of the phrases that just sticks out to me that she said is okay, ladies, you need to get down on your knees. And she said something like, and you know how to do I know all you know how to get on your knees. And then she said, and a couple of you men too. And I'm like, I'm just sitting there. Oh no. Oh shit. I'm like, do I still equally bad? I'm I'm like looking around, looking to see what the reactions are. Some people are laughing, and nobody nobody appeared to be offended by it. So I I took it Honestly, I think it's hilarious. It was, but it's not per it's not good for it's like we're condoning that. Well, we we wrote a strongly worded email to the the coordinator of training for the Red Cross in our area and said we under no circumstance stances want this person to come back to our office and things like that. And we gave so because I took one session, we did two sessions a day, and my assistant took another and we compared notes at the end day, and we it was very it was inappropriate all the all day, yeah, both episodes that she did. But anyways, well this year we were supposed to do our training on like a Monday, but something happened and we at the last minute we had to change it to another day, so like a Wednesday, and we were set up with another trainer. Who do we get? We get that same person that we told them we didn't want the them back. And I asked I didn't attend either, it wasn't my cycle to do, but my assistant took pictures and things to put in the newsletter and on the internal website and things, and she hung out and I said, How was it? She goes, It wasn't she wasn't bad, but she did say something that we don't need to go telling her supervisors about the so I guess she got some feedback uh because she told my assistant, you don't need to go tell my supervisors about this or that. And oh that she was late. She was late to the first one. So uh so I think she knows we we ratted her out on that. So that was that was fun.

SPEAKER_04: 39:59

Well you gotta know you gotta know your crowd before you can like go certain places with them, and it seems like she couldn't read the room.

SPEAKER_00: 40:07

Well, in our the room was uh she probably read the room. It was uh, you know, a more blue-collar crowd and things like that, but not not in our, you know, you you you just not in a professional environment like ours.

SPEAKER_04: 40:20

It's not professional. It's funny you said that because we had this active shooter training and it was done by our local police department, and the the officer was like answering questions in like a Q ⁇ A after, and someone asked, and mind you, there's two me and my my boss, my manager at the time, like representing HR are in the back of the room, and someone asked, like, you know, our what is it, our workplace is like doesn't allow guns, but I have a gun and I own a gun and it's in my car. So if there's an active shooter, could I like go after them? And I'm like, oh my god, like vigilante law. And the police officer, like, in that moment condoned vigilante law. Because he was like he's like, if he's like, I know I'm supposed to say no, never, like, because I know HR's in the back of the room, but I'm just telling you, as a police officer with my gun, I would just handle things, and we're like, the fuck are you saying, man? Shut up.

SPEAKER_00: 41:26

Yeah. So I Oh gosh. I and and yeah, active shooter trading. Ours we do have to do active shooter trading as a DOD contractor every year, and it's luckily it's a video thing and it's not live action and things, but it's it's pretty cool. I I it is actually kind of it is kind of cool, but you know, hopefully never have to use that information.

SPEAKER_04: 41:53

I know. I actually took an active shooter training once, and it was it was one of those things because it was like a really pretty building, and the pretty buildings were all like in like all the what is it, the conference rooms were all glass. We were also on the top floor, and like again, it was a police officer like coming in and like doing this active shooter training, and he's and we're like, We're on the top floor, and what if they walk off the elevator? He's like, Well, hide, and we're like, Well, we can hide because it's all glass, and then he like paused for a second and he just had a moment of like well, I guess you're all shit out of luck. And we were like, What?

SPEAKER_00: 42:30

I I can tell okay, the training has stuck in because the the order of operations for an active shooter event is to A run. If you can't run, B, you hide, and only if you can't run or hide, that's the only acceptable time to fight back.

SPEAKER_04: 42:48

So yeah, so automatically working on the twelfth floor of a building that is all glass with all the conference rooms in glass, we got automatically elevated to fight.

SPEAKER_00: 42:59

Yeah, yeah, you're yeah, that's pretty pretty rough. Well, the last story I have uh for today, and this comes to me this morning from my wonderful, lovely daughter. I'm trying to pull up the text right now.

SPEAKER_04: 43:19

So I laughed so hard when you sent this.

SPEAKER_00: 43:22

Oh. Okay. So I actually I misread her text the first time, uh but I I forwarded it to you so you saw it. But I'm gonna just read this word for word because it does pat me and my wife on the back. But she works in a retail environment and is in a low-level management thing, but she sometimes does the panel interviews, sometimes she doesn't. Today she wasn't. But, anyways, text comes in this afternoon. We're doing interviews for holiday season today, and I'm not part of them today, but I see the people we're interviewing. I just gotta say thank y'all for raising me the right way, because why the why did this girl show up and do the interview with her mom in the room in all capital letters? Uh she says, like, fine, I guess, if she had to drive you, but your mommy doesn't need to hold your hand through an interview.

SPEAKER_04: 44:13

You know what? That's just a clap. That's a clap for you, Warren.

SPEAKER_00: 44:19

Yeah, she I I got a kick out of it. And I I want to she was at work, obviously, when she sent this, so I want to ask her, what would you have done if you were on that panel interview with this this person? And say, I I I is my first thing would be I I don't know. I've I would probably bite my tongue, but my mind, the only thing I'm thinking is why the fuck is your mommy here? Because at the water park, I had it happen a few times, and most of the time they were minors, and I did and if they weren't, I don't care. We to get hired at the water park, you had to A, smile, and B have a pulse, and we were gonna find you a job somewhere in that water park. There was one person in all the interviews I did there that we did not extend an offer to because one of the we make them go through an interview, even though it's gonna be hard to fail it, but this person did, well, you know, what is your greatest weakness? Well, I have trouble being places on time, I oversleep a lot, and I don't uh you know I'm I might be late to work a lot and all this other he's he's sitting there telling us, and he's the only person I can recall that we did not extend an offer to that's really funny. We did not hand him the little manila envelope with all the hiring information, but yeah, mommies to interviews come on.

SPEAKER_04: 45:38

I that's rough.

SPEAKER_00: 45:40

Even if you're under 18. Like I I I mentioned before both my kids worked at the water park. I didn't I did not go in the interview. They were good once again, they were gonna be hired, but I made them go through the same process anybody else was gonna go through and do. So they had a uh interview and and we did talk, you know, afterwards, you know, even though we've already given the offer to him, hey, how are your interviews today? Oh, Shawnee was great and Susie was great, and then but Billy uh, you know, whatever, he'll do okay. You know, we just we would talk and I didn't do any interview real prep for him. I let him just you know, survival the fittest here, go, you know, and yeah, so that was that was interesting.

SPEAKER_04: 46:23

That's so funny. That's just so funny. You know, you said like at the water park you would hire anyone, I could like smile and and whatever. I had I had my first encounter of the Gen Z stare, and it threw me through the it threw me because I never like experienced it. And then I went to that very fancy supermarket that you know, Dorothy Lane. Yes, and for so for the listeners, it's uh it's Dorothy Lane is a very local grocery store. It is bougie AF.

SPEAKER_00: 46:54

Bougie as you don't get any more bougie. The cashiers and the bag boys are wearing tux tuxes.

SPEAKER_04: 47:01

Yeah, they're like there's a there's a seven dollar peach in packaging kind of deal. It's no errawan, but it's you know, it's it's it's a it's a high quality bougie place. And there was a a guy, I was getting some muscles, and the guy behind the counter, I could probably pin him at like 1920 and he was in his little like bow tie and and black apron, and I walk up and he just like is looking at me and he's kind of giving me this half stare, like almost like Stepford, like a half smile, and I'm like, hello, and like he didn't respond, and then he just kept kind of staring. I'm like, Can I can I get something? And he was like, he nodded his head, and I was like, Okay, and I like grab like I asked him for the muscles, he measured it, he did everything, and like he walked, like another thing is that they walk it out to you, so he like walked from behind the counter and came out and like handed it to me the whole time, did not say one word, and just had the most empty, freakishly empty stare. Like his soul was gone.

SPEAKER_00: 48:09

Oh man, I I what I wonder if he like he was new and he's like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, or these are real people, they're not on the other tip of monitor. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 48:22

He's having a whole internal like breakdown of like an anxiety attack, and I'm over here judging the poor thing.

SPEAKER_00: 48:30

Judging is what Gin Gen Xers do. We're the judgy generation. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04: 48:36

That was that was my gen that was my Gen Z stare, and it it threw the fuck out of me. I didn't know how to respond.

SPEAKER_00: 48:43

Well, I've got the opposite end happened to me. I I told you I went house hunting with my mother and one of the houses we went into. First, Gen Z, my realtor, she looks like she was 12 years old. Actually, my realtor, the someone I know, she was out of town at a country music festival this weekend, so she used another realtor in her group. And it was the person she assigned me, very sweet, but she looked like she was between eight and twelve years old. And my wife, so we meet at the first house when we meet this girl. I thought the person answered the door, like the the residents hadn't left, and a little girl was answering the door, and she goes, Oh, you must be the workman. So I'm like, Oh, what? And and then we get to the car after the first house we went to. My wife goes, my wife goes, Oh my gosh, she's like 12 years old. I said, Yeah. And then that we're talking to her at the next house, and she's talking, Oh yeah, my husband, this. I'm like, You're you're so you're probably at least 18. Now we're gonna we're getting up to 18, and uh she didn't mention anything about kids or anything like that, but okay, here's where we go the opposite way. We walk into this one house, and we just opened the door, and I took one step in and I put a couple of combinations of words together that don't go together in good company company, especially people you don't know, but it ended up with smells like old people in here. It smelled like it like I'd only been in the house for one step, and I and my wife, my ribs, I probably if I looked to have a bruise, she punched me so flipping hard because and then the the realtor girl goes, Yeah, it does kind of smell like my grandparents' house. I'm like, I'm looking at you, I'm looking like I could be as old as your your grandparents just because you look like you're eight years old or something like that. But oh, my wife really just gave me a a rib shot. Yeah, she got me good.

SPEAKER_03: 50:37

It smells like old people.

SPEAKER_00: 50:39

It smells like old. But anyways, uh that was our thing.

SPEAKER_04: 50:42

Oh my gosh. I hate to break it to you, but they don't look 12. We're just getting older by definition. They all look that way.

SPEAKER_00: 50:53

What this was the first time, because my wife always yells at me as I call people little girls and little boys when they're in their twenties. But she said she used the term little little girl on this person. I'm like, okay, if you're using it, I'm definitely not the only one feeling this. But yes, it's because we're we're feeling uh we're so much she looks like I said, I that's what I would put her as one of my my daughter's like middle school girlfriend type age. When my girl my daughter was in middle school, uh that's the word of the age I pictured her as. So it's just good for her when she gets to be in her 70s and smells like old people, she'll be maybe looking like she's in her 40s or 50s. I don't know. But yeah, I I am still I if I took a really if I yawned or something like that, I'm sure I could still feel my ribs today from from my wife. So, anyways, I will land the plane with that one. So let's see here. Once again, please go on your favorite podcast player, rate us, review us, tell a friend, and let's see, we will be back in two weeks. Uh so uh the thank yous to the underscore orchestra orchestra for the double the doubles theme song, and Andrew Culpa is our voice artist. So then I get to say, as always, I'm Warren.

SPEAKER_04: 52:09

I'm CeC.

SPEAKER_00: 52:11

And we're here helping you survive HR one what the fuck moment at a time.