HR Got Replaced by a Former Teacher… And Nobody Saw the Problem

What happens when a company decides HR experience doesn’t actually matter?

In this episode of Jaded HR, Warren and CeeCee dive headfirst into the frustrating reality of how many organizations still view HR as little more than paperwork, party planning, and administrative busywork.

The conversation starts with a real-world story that’ll make HR professionals cringe: a small company passes over an internal employee with an HR degree for an HR opening… and hires a former school teacher with zero HR experience instead. Why? Because leadership viewed the role as “mostly administrative.” Warren and CeeCee unpack the deeper issue behind decisions like this — the ongoing devaluation of HR expertise and the dangerous assumption that “anyone can do HR.”

From there, things spiral beautifully into discussions about:

•  companies replacing CHROs with “Chiefs of Staff” 
•  why succession planning can backfire when nobody retires 
•  retaining ambitious employees in small organizations 
•  the emotional toll of career stagnation 
•  why great employees eventually outgrow some companies 
•  Walmart’s latest accommodation lawsuit disaster 
•  and SHRM’s absolutely wild 2026 conference pricing 

The SHRM rant alone is worth the listen. Warren and CeeCee break down the jaw-dropping cost of attending the national conference, debate whether modern HR professionals still need organizations like SHRM, and question whether niche experts and social media creators are replacing traditional HR associations entirely.

There’s also:

•  Costco vs. Sam’s Club suburban warfare 
•  forklift certification anxiety 
•  Pokémon Go bonding moments 
•  pool season HOA drama 
•  thunderstorms as sleep therapy 
•  and enough cynical HR commentary to power an entire leadership retreat. 

If you’ve ever wondered whether companies truly understand the value of HR — this episode answers that question loudly and painfully.

Topics Covered

•  HR leadership 
•  CHRO trends 
•  HR career growth 
•  succession planning 
•  employee retention 
•  SHRM conference 2026 
•  HR certifications 
•  workplace accommodations 
•  Walmart lawsuit 
•  HR burnout 
•  talent development 
•  organizational culture 
•  HR professional development 
•  cynical HR stories 
•  Human Resources podcast 

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Warren: All righty, we are back again for our second episode of season seven? I can't even remember now, we've been so far off and life's been crazy and fun and all that other great stuff. And it's, it's coming up on summertime. This weekend is Memorial Day weekend, and I tell you what, my wife and I were looking at the calendar and we're like, "Oh, this is Memorial Day."

It, it feels like it's too early in May to be [00:01:00] Memorial Day.

CeeCee: Yes, it is.

Warren: down here in the Outer Banks of North Carolina, it is gonna rain Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, according to the weather. Uh, yeah, so just means some good garage time for me.

CeeCee: We had some unseasonably warm weather, and we opened the pool in our neighborhood up early, so yeah. So, oh, it was a whole thing. Our, um, our hOA president stepped down, and now the new HOA president is in and is doing all the things we all wanted. So we got our pool heater fixed, and we're opening the pool for longer. It's great. I love it. It's pool season. But I think it is gonna rain this weekend, so just got a taste of it very briefly. It was great.

Warren: Yeah. My wife and I, because this past weekend was in the upper 80s, I, I got sunburned. And of course, where do I get sunburned? On the top of my feet. I was wearing my flip-flops while doing the lawn which, you know, not a good safety thing to do.

CeeCee: You gotta

Warren: but I got [00:02:00] sunburned.

CeeCee: you gotta get the base tan in before you can, rock the flip-flops.

Warren: Yeah, yeah. I just went for it. So I got a little sunburned on the top of my,

CeeCee: Nice.

Warren: head is not gonna get, burned and all that other fun stuff. And actually, two weeks ago, I went to my annual dermatologist appointment, and for the first time in I can't remember how long, they did not want me to come back to take a piece of my flesh off of me.

So I was very, very happy after that skin exam, you know, where they look you over everywhere and, and then she said, "Okay, see you next year." I'm like, "You're not making me come back?" And she said, "Nope, nothing to worry about this time." I was like, "This is the first time I can remember you having to have me come back," and things like that.

I mean,

CeeCee: need

Warren: it's been crazy.

CeeCee: year- years since I've been to the dermatologist. I'm pretty sure, like, I need to go get my

Warren: Go every year. Yeah, I go every year. The only doctors I see regularly are ... I, I stopped seeing [00:03:00] my allergist, but I see my regular doctor every year, and then I see the dermatologist because I just don't wanna ... i'm very bad about sunscreen. I'm better now about wearing hats on my wonderfully bald head,

CeeCee: Wear

Warren: and things like that.

Yeah

CeeCee: wear your sunscreen.

Warren: I need to do better with the sunscreen, but I don't. Yeah, it's crazy. But anyhow, I haven't been up to date on the HR world like I should be the last couple of weeks. I can't tell you if SHRM's done anything stupid over the last few weeks or months or anything like that.

CeeCee: for reminding me. I'm

Warren: Oh.

CeeCee: jealous this year because I think they announced s- entertainment for... 'Cause, you know, they always have, like, an

Warren: Oh, yes.

CeeCee: It's Christina Aguilera this year, and I actually for once would go to that.

Warren: Oh.

CeeCee: I'm... I would go and see Christina.

Warren: It's in Orlando, [00:04:00] right, with... oprah, right?

CeeCee: I don't like Orlando.

Warren: Yeah. Isn't it

CeeCee: it's a thing. I've been to Orlando one too many times. It's fine. But I think when I went to SHRM it was Lionel Richie, 

Warren: Okay.

CeeCee: I skipped out on that and I actually ended up hanging out with a bunch of other people instead. I would see Christina.

Warren: Okay.

CeeCee: And then there's also a piece of me that's like, oh, okay, so I don't know if you've gone through this, but it's also just the fact that, they hire people who cater to a certain age group, and I'm like, "Oh, we're that age group now." Like kind of like when you go to the grocery store.

Like, for me, if I go to the grocery store and they start playing like Dashboard Confessional on the music, I'm like, "Oh,

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: now. I'm now who they're catering to." So I think it's a little bit of

Warren: No. What that means is that you are in your [00:05:00] prime earning years, and that's why they're targeting you, so that you spend more money. You're in your prime earning years. You're not older, your prime earning years. So.

CeeCee: someone tell my bank account that.

Warren: Yeah. I have that feeling as well. A-as somebody with...

CeeCee: we just did our kitchen and, we're celebrating by just doing a staycation this year 'cause the kitchen was our vacation.

Warren: Yep. Been there, done that. As someone who drives an hour and a half each way to work am, feeling the gas price raises and it's funny 'cause I use... No plug. We're not promoting it or anything. I use GasBuddy, and it helps me find the lowest price. It gives you a little bit of a discount, and you can find other things, and you can combine it.

I use the Shell Fuel Rewards, also not sponsored. But like on Sundays, you save an extra, on top of everything else, an extra twenty two cents a gallon So with my car, I fill up on Sundays, get that twenty two cents, but I have [00:06:00] to put like another five gallons in on Friday to get me to work Friday, back home, and then the running around on weekends.

So I've got this whole thing, done up and how I do my gas and everything like that, but it's great. But I have a new coworker,

CeeCee: Ooh.

Warren: of yesterday, my son. He's not working for me, he's working in the warehouse. We have a new inventory management system in our warehouse, and he's gonna be populating that for the very first time.

It's gonna be his summer job and his summer project, so yeah, it'll be good. And another thing, he's shitting bricks about this, kinda. He's gonna have to become forklift operator certified and, he's like worried about, driving a forklift. And my wonderful father-in-law was giving him all these horror stories about things that he experienced with people operating forklifts.

So it's, has not helped the situation at all. And the funny thing is, the boss who- who's, [00:07:00] probably closer to your age than my age, she was telling him, "Oh, it, it, it's sort of, sort of like Mario Kart, driving the forklift around." She said, "You'll be just fine if, if you've done Mari-" And he looks at her, "I've never done Mario Kart."

CeeCee: Has he

Warren: so

CeeCee: Mario Kart? There's like 50 versions of it.

Warren: we had a Wii when he was much younger, and he was just not into video games.

CeeCee: Okay,

Fair.

Warren: nowadays, like he and I are playing Pokemon. Now that he's back home, we're playing Pokemon Go together and it's, it's funny. we're going, doing what we call Poke walks and things like that, and having a good old time with that.

But, that's like the game he, he's into is Pokemon Go. So yeah, it's gonna be a fun summer. And I, I've been trying to level up to catch up with him, 'cause I was actually not only a beta tester for Pokemon Go, I was an Alpha two, tester for Pokemon Go. And,

CeeCee: at

Warren: Yeah, then I became a beta tester.

And then, you know, [00:08:00] I played it for a while. I t- I think I've told the stories Patrick and I would do... Uh, he was a beta te- Once I, it got into beta, I got to invite like five people, and I invited Patrick, and he ended up being a beta tester with me. And yeah, it was, we, used to play it, but after I left that company working with him, Aiden really wasn't into it anymore at that time and I stopped playing, and now my son's like, "We need to play this again."

I'm like, "Okay." I've been trying to level up to get... catch up with him. So yeah. Now we taught lessons from Pokemon Go.

CeeCee: No.

Warren: But, yeah, I'd like to throw some Poké Balls at some employees. Anyways, yeah, strange stuff. well, I only have one thing on the agenda today, and I don't know if you just saw that.

I've, I've just froze on my screen. That's what distracted me. I was in a different thing. But yeah.

CeeCee: the way, there is a thunderstorm just cruising on in, so if you hear thunder [00:09:00] in

Warren: Oh.

CeeCee: apologies.

Warren: Oh. Well, I love thunderstorms. I do love thunderstorms. I love the lightning, the noise. I just love it. I've been camping out in thunderstorms, and I don't mind it at all. Actually, my wife and I, we've gone all sorts of directions. We have a Google Speaker in our room, and we tell it to play white noise every night.

And it plays just the staticky, noise most of the time. But when she's not home, I have a special white noise that's a rain and thunderstorm mix that I, have it play, and that puts me to sleep. I feel so calm during that, and it's great. I love thunderstorms.

[00:10:00] [00:11:00] 

Warren: But, yeah, I only have one story for today, and I think the listeners will enjoy it because it shows how some companies devalue HR.

And it makes me feel sad inside in some ways, but it also, it's reality. It really is reality. So, I have a friend who is not in HR. she has an employee who got their degree in HR but was working for her in another department of procurement. And, her company's HR person left, and they needed a new one.

So, they put the ad out. My friend's employee applied, and my friend was advocating to the owner of the company. It's a small company, like, you know, a little over a hundred or so employees. Advocating, "You need to hire her for this position. You need to hire her for this position." [00:12:00] And what happens?

They ended up hiring somebody else. But... And this is all s- second, thirdhand, whatever, from my friend. The person they hired was a, someone who just left being a school teacher with apparently zero HR experience. And she says, "Look, the HR in our company isn't really robust. You know, it's very administratively driven, and, you know, they don't do..."

They do parties, so maybe the party planning committee type thing. But, It's not, you know, strategically oriented or aligned with the company goals and things like that. It's just an administrative function for that company. And, my friend, she is upset that her employee didn't get hired. Or not-- Yeah, she's-- My friend is upset that her employee did not get hired, and she's even more upset...

You know, she said if it was somebody who came in with three to five years of experience and was a better candidate, she'd be, "Okay, that's, that's the way the cookie crumbles." But someone who [00:13:00] seemingly has no HR experience, and like I said, it, it hurts my, my HR soul a little bit because that, that's how companies devalue HR.

Oh, we don't need somebody who knows something. We just need someone to put check mark A in box B and, and do the little professional things. And

CeeCee: Yeah,

Warren: What's gonna happen when someone wants FMLA or, who knows what other type of things that are gonna come up that just somebody who has zero experience is gonna be a deer in the headlights.

CeeCee: Yeah.

Warren: HR is a profession for a reason.

CeeCee: It

Warren: And I...

CeeCee: it's interesting you brought this up because I have a friend who her company, they just eliminated the CHRO, 

Warren: Oh.

CeeCee: Like, the CHRO left, they now have instead replaced that position with a chief of staff.

Warren: [00:14:00] Yeah.

CeeCee: like that in and of itself, like makes the... And it's a big HR organization, like it's pretty robust. like that in and of itself makes people nervous of us like so we don't get a CHRO, we're getting a chief of staff instead, and, like, they're gonna be oversee... So yeah, like, it's the same kind of mentality of like, what about HR?

Warren: We don't need this, you know?

CeeCee: Don't necessarily understand the chief of staff title, but

Warren: Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like the old days of personnel.

CeeCee: Yeah. Like,

Warren: at one point, my title was Assistant Personnel Director, and I hated it. I'm not big on titles one way or the other, but that's one I did not like at all. I did not like the Assistant Personnel Director.

CeeCee: my mom, like back in the '80s, was an assistant who had like kind of [00:15:00] her belt as well, and it was just administrative. It was like paperwork, done, done. But my mom to this day jokes and she's like, "Well, I used to work in personnel." And I'm like,

Warren: Mm.

CeeCee: Cool."

Warren: yeah, when I was a assistant personnel director, that was just... That's a time when HR was an actual thing, and it's not like it was the 1970s when I was doing that where it wasn't, uh, when human resources wasn't a thing. It was personnel. So yeah, it's disappointing, and, shame on the owner of that company.

I should have asked if her employee even got an interview or talked to or anything like that. It doesn't seem that way, but shame on that company for not...

CeeCee: that her employee had an HR

Warren: A degree.

CeeCee: no experience.

Warren: Right. No, she has no experience, but she has the HR degree. So, uh, if, if you're...

CeeCee: but to be honest, I [00:16:00] think you just kind of hit the nail on the head. It's not, that's exactly how the company sees HR. So I think that's the answer. That's what they were looking

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: That's all they

Warren: that's...

CeeCee: all they want. So end of

Warren: And...

CeeCee: to be quite honest, your friend may lose that employee 'cause that

Warren: Yes.

CeeCee: disengaged.

Warren: She's worried about that.

CeeCee: like for that employee, that might be the best option 'cause there's no options there.

Warren: Yeah. And, you know, I work for a smaller company, not as small as this, but I really work hard to dispel the myth of, you know, we're a small... You know, no matter how you look at it up or down the ladder, there's nobody in our company that's more than five rungs from the president, in our company.

That's how flat, we are. And some people think that and say, "Oh, well, that means there's no growth for me." But growth just looks differently. You can grow in terms of... And we're an engineering firm. People love growing in terms of [00:17:00] being an SME, Or otherwise, you can make a lateral move that will potentially put you in spot for a vertical move later.

But it's not like we're an Amazon or Google with these nice growth curves and career paths and things like that. You don't really have that in a smaller company, for better or worse. There's not anything like that. And one thing I think about all the time is I have an assistant,

CeeCee: Yeah.

Warren: death.

She is incredible in every single way, but I'm afraid she's gonna get to a point where she's not gonna grow professionally more and she's gonna move on, and that's what scares me. And I try and keep her engaged and get her involved in anything and everything I can, because I, I want her to, to learn.

Actually Also this week, I had my intern for the summer start with us, and my assistant and I were both scheduled to go last week to a labor and employment seminar. I [00:18:00] pulled out of that, and let my assistant go because I didn't want the intern to be there all by herself That would've been her second day there.

Yeah, I'll go later to it. But, you know, I hate when people think there's no growth opportunity for them. And for me, honestly, there's no growth opportunity for me. You know, as we grow, maybe they'll change my title to something cooler, bigger. You know, like I just said, I'm not overly concerned about titles.

CeeCee: Yeah.

Warren: I am, and I love the work I do. I love working directly for the president. I get all the respect and autonomy and authority I really want. So I won't find it better anywhere else, I don't think. So yeah.

CeeCee: You said something before and I just wanna say, I know you're worried that people are gonna, like... like, depending on someone's career aspirations, they could simply just outgrow the pond and go on to something bigger. I think that's okay, too,

Warren: is.

CeeCee: as a manager.

And I know, like, you wanna keep and retain as much talent as [00:19:00] possible. Sometimes the company won't really have enough lanes for someone to, like, hop through and go up. if you have gotten to the point as a manager where you have trained someone and you have developed someone to that point, I think, like, that's not a failure.

That's actually a good thing, so

Warren: I absolutely agree, and I love the people I've worked with in the past. I've seen some of them that are like VPs of HR and things like that. I love seeing that. You have a cooler title than me, but hey, whatever works. So I really just, I love seeing people grow with that. I do not get jealous because, like I said, you can have whatever title it is, CHRO or Chief Heart Officer or something along those lines, and I'm gonna be happy for you.

As long as you're growing and you're happy, and yeah, that's all

CeeCee: Yeah, I'm not...

Warren: I can say.

CeeCee: talking about, like, a jealousy thing. I'm talking about, like, think we're so into, like, keeping our talent, even internally. Like, if we have someone who's so good, we [00:20:00] don't wanna even, like, let them go to another team because they're our person. And it's like,

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: people grow.

Like,

Warren: Mm-hmm.

CeeCee: Whether it's gonna be within your company, like if they are, like, a really good person, you better be doing everything you can to keep them, and keep them engaged and give them those opportunities. But if it's a smaller company, I have a friend right now

Warren: Hmm.

CeeCee: like a 50-year family-owned and operated company. There's only so much she can do. She's at the point right now where she's like, "I've been there for six years," and kind of, you know, the head of marketing and business development, and she's like, "I think it's time for me to look at something bigger."

Like, now she wants to look at a global company. So, like, for me, I'm like, that's just part of life, and as a manager, it's like you

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: to be able to do everything you can to keep good talent, but then understand that they might wanna go to a different team. They might wanna go to a different [00:21:00] company.

Like, it's not, it's not like a failure on a manager or a company's part

Warren: Oh, absolutely not. No, I absolutely agree and I love-- I wanna see people grow and if you're not growing, you know... And like I said, I'm at a point in my career where I'm not gonna grow really terribly much, where I am, and if I wanted to grow more, I could go to a different company. But I've got it really good where I am, and I wouldn't wanna make that trade-off.

And, but as long as I'm staying put, my assistant doesn't have any place to go, unless we,

CeeCee: That's

Warren: or triple in size or something like that. And, I get some growth and she would get some growth. But, yeah, that's always something that sticks in the back of my mind. I'm like, "Okay, I can, you know...

What can I do to keep her engaged and keep her motivated and, chart her own course in many ways and things like that?" So it's cool. It's fun,

CeeCee: Yeah, I know. It's,

Warren: so.

CeeCee: you just... I'm-- It's very front of mind for me right now, but I'm working on some succession planning stuff and working on [00:22:00] our program and making improvements here and there. And one of the things we talk about is that, okay, like, you name these great successors, we're gonna grow 'em. But this is my personal point of view. This is my personal thing. I don't like telling people they're a successor because just what you said, it's like if the person doesn't go anywhere, it can get very demoralizing for the person who's like, "Once that person leaves, it's my role," which isn't

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: And then all of a sudden that person's just there for, like, you know, a very long time, which good. But at the same time, it can become very for somebody. So, so yeah. So I, like... it was just front of mind, the whole succession thing. I don't, I don't like telling people they're successors, but they are

Warren: Well,

CeeCee: top

Warren: I have recently seen that exact same situation. The successor has been identified and basically informed of this. [00:23:00] However, the incumbent decided that they were not gonna retire at the time they said they were gonna retire, and threw a monkey wrench in all these plans, and it's been super demoralizing for the, the heir apparent, or not just apparent, but the, the person we identified as the successor.

And they're a good team player. They're gonna play it out until this person finally does decide to retire. But I feel bad for them. And I also think that this person will come in and make a lot of changes that are necessary to be changing-- changed, and kick some ass and do great things. And I've, nothing against the incumbent, but I, I think that, she will just come in there and, and revolutionize that role when she gets the opportunity.

And, it's, it's sad that this person just decided, "Oh, I can't... I'm not ready to retire yet." I'm like, maybe you are retire-- ready

CeeCee: Hmm.

Warren: but [00:24:00] yeah, it's... But she'll be patient, she says.

CeeCee: Yeah.

Warren: So anyhow, anything else fun going on in the world of HR?

CeeCee: No, I just heard a story of, to go off the top of my head,

Warren: Oh,

CeeCee: forgive me if, I miss a

Warren: good

CeeCee: But I did hear a

Warren: for her.

CeeCee: I remember correctly, was an employee of 18 years, a floor associate, and this particular person had, um- syndrome, and they relied on their break time to be at a specific time every day. and I think they went to some kind of a new time system or some kind of new protocol, and it was very disruptive for this employee. So I think they asked for a simple accommodation of just, her break time being the same time during her shifts. They didn't. She... And I don't... I,

Warren: I,

CeeCee: believe [00:25:00] that they didn't allow for the accommodation, but then I also think that she just

Warren: you know,

CeeCee: attention to whether they said no or yes and went on her breaks as normal, and she ended up getting terminated. there was a wrongful termination suit, and she won, so Walmart lost.

Warren: I've said it many times before, I despise Walmart. They're a necessary evil I avoid them like the plague.

CeeCee: I

Warren: but unfortunately, they have what you need, generally speaking, and, they're not terribly inconvenient or anything like that. And the prices are generally good, except for the groceries and things like their groceries are still higher than some other, companies.

Uh, but anyways, I don't like that. But we said a few weeks ago how we talk about grocery stores a lot. Well, here we go again. I joined Costco again for the first time in [00:26:00] twelve years,

CeeCee: Ow!

Warren: I paid my membership, and I instantly regretted it. Like, there's... I only got the Gold Star, so that's fifty-six dollars down the tube.

It's just... Yeah, like, I-- It's worse than a Walmart in terms of the, the customers and the idiocy in there, people lining up. And I know, like, I wanna get my half an ounce of Nutrigrain bar, so I'm gonna make a line all the way around the corner, and I'm gonna get just... And, and, it, it was s-such a zoo, such a sea of...

Everywhere I, I was losing my shit inside my head. And I, I thought, I was telling my wife, "Let's just leave our cart here, go back to the front and ask for our refund." It was a Saturday afternoon, but

CeeCee: was your

Warren: the,

CeeCee: You don't

Warren: the closest Costco to us is about sixty miles away, so it's not anything we're gonna be able to do.

And I didn't realize this until after we [00:27:00] joined. I should've done my homework a little bit better. Like Sam's Club, I don't know the level of membership that we have, but we get free shipping. There's no level of membership at Costco that gets you free shipping.

And so that sort of, it was a down, turn. And, the meats section was, not, it wasn't as good as Sam's Club. I was like, "Oh my gosh." I'm like, I'm saying that Sam's Club is better than,

CeeCee: Well, I hate to break it

Warren: Costco.

CeeCee: who owns Sam's Club?

Warren: And there's one Sam's Club I really like. Locally, I like that one too.

The others I despise, for various reasons. But they are supposed to be building a new Costco about twenty minutes closer to me i-in about two years. They, they've got the plans permitted. So you know, I only joined for one year, and they kept saying, "Well, if you auto-- put it your credit card on file and auto-renew, you'll get this."

I'm like, "No, this is a one-year experiment," and it could have been a one-day experiment. But my wife said maybe one day she'll meet me and we'll go after work on a weekday and, [00:28:00] and things like that.

CeeCee: Like, honestly, I have two Costcos very close to me. I will pick a day of the week to go, like, during lunch or something, and that everyone's gone. It's nice. It's empty. There's no sample. Like, you know, no one's fighting, doing body slams over samples. it's nice. And I have embraced my suburban lifestyle of going to Costco. I get my meats, I come home, I put them in my FoodSaver, and I

Warren: Yes.

CeeCee: and then I put them in the freezer in the garage, and it's great. I love it. I love Costco.

Warren: We have that routine of we have our FoodSaver and we have two freezers in the garage. And the thing is, now that my kids are older, I keep saying, "Let's get rid of one of our fridges and, you know, save the electricity." And, nope, nope. But, like, when we went last time, we didn't get too many meats at Costco this time.

But normally we'll spend three [00:29:00] or four hundred dollars once a month at Sam's and fill it up, and then we'll dwindle it down. But this weekend, because my son's home for the summer, we were already talking how much money we're going to be spending on groceries, 'cause the man can eat, and he's still a string bean, no matter how much he eats.

And even today he's talking, "I ate lunch, and like two minutes later I was starving again." And I'm like, he goes, "Would I..." He's-- Like I said, he's just started working. "Would I be allowed to just, leave and go to 7-Eleven and get a snack or something?" And I said, "If you ask, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.

Don't just get up and go, to do that." I told him, "Hey, in the top drawer of my desk, there's usually some Slim Jims or some trail mix or,

CeeCee: Yeah.

Warren: something like that." Things he, he doesn't really care for. But yeah, I told him he can come by my desk and steal anything out of it you want.

CeeCee: so

Warren: but we'll see how it goes.

Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be good. So anyhow. So yeah, not too much to talk about, this week. But I think, [00:30:00] you know, every year when SHRM has this conference, it comes out with something. So Verr- I wanna hear from y'all about if you go to SHRM, I wanna hear about your Oprah experiences, and I wanna hear about your Christina Aguilera

CeeCee: yes.

Warren: I don't know what other speakers they have coming or not coming, this year. But those are the... I did know Christina Aguilera until you said it, but I'd heard of Oprah. Maybe... I hope I'm saying the right year. Maybe Oprah was last year. I don't know. I think this is this year, and things like that.

But once again...

CeeCee: no, I think it's the guy. I think it's Simon Sinek. I think they announced Simon Sinek.

Warren: Okay, I'm Googling it now. Yeah, it is in Orlando, June sixteenth to June nineteenth. Yeah, it's Oprah

CeeCee: Oh, okay.

Warren: And let's see, Simon Sinek is one of the keynote speakers.

CeeCee: Oh, that's what it was. Okay.

Warren: yeah, Christina Aguilera.

CeeCee: Have mixed, I have, I have mixed feelings about Simon Sinek.

Warren: Yeah, I don't know who he is. Global authority on purpose-driven culture.

CeeCee: he has, like, some really [00:31:00] good sound bites and snippets, and I like a lot of his philosophies. He kinda lost me when he did this, like... it's something about, like, why millennials are the way they are. And the way I understood it, like, I listened to it, and the way that I interpreted it was like, well, of course, they're messed up.

Look at what they've been through. Like,

Warren: Okay.

CeeCee: It was just very, like, overgeneralizing, generations, which I don't like when people do that. It's just very like, oh, like,

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: Z's are this way, and all millennials are... And I'm like, you're kinda losing the plot when it comes to that kind of stuff. And I was like, "What are you, what are you talking about, man?" But he does, he... Purpose-driven leadership, there's some good nuggets in there.

Warren: What the heck? I haven't heard them. But we played this game last year. Let's see how good you are at guessing the price for the individual attendance at SHRM, 

CeeCee: wait. Is it

Warren: it is this year.

CeeCee: price?

Warren: is the member price. [00:32:00] It says click here for non-member rates. I haven't clicked there yet.

CeeCee: 1,200 for a member.

Warren: Ooh, you're way, way, way low.

CeeCee: I'm low.

Warren: Yes.

CeeCee: See, I thought the non-member would... I would think a non-member would be, like, 15, 16.

Warren: Oh, no, no,

CeeCee: W- for sure?

Warren: For SHRM.

CeeCee: I'd go on vacation instead.

Warren: Exactly. I would not, uh, uh, put that...

CeeCee: go on a cruise? I'll go on a nice Norwegian cruise, and I'll bring some HR audiobooks with me, and I'll have

Warren: Yes.

CeeCee: I think, like, it'll be fine. It'll be fine.

Warren: Okay, here's the rates for twenty twenty-six SHRM. Early bird, which is already sold out because it's a month... Actually, final registration ends this week. Early bird price was basically twenty-four hundred dollars for a member, [00:33:00] twenty-eight hundred for non-member.

CeeCee: Wow.

Warren: registration, which is also now expired, was twenty-six hundred dollars for a member and three thousand for a non-member.

CeeCee: Okay.

Warren: And...

CeeCee: you know why they can justify these prices? It's 'cause

Warren: Because people are stupid enough to pay it.

CeeCee: no one's paying out of pocket for this stuff.

Warren: Yes.

CeeCee: being paid for by a company, and this is all being paid for by... the most part, this is

Warren: Your L&D, 

CeeCee: L&D budget. So I mean, the only way they can justify these prices, 'cause 

Warren: And...

CeeCee: I'm literally going on a vacation. I like my

Warren: Well, if you were to register today in the final week, it's $2,700 for a member and 3,100 for a non-member. But get this, right above the prices, there's a link that says, "Convince your boss."

CeeCee: Oh, yeah, they give you the business case, which, by the[00:34:00] 

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: be honest, that's genius. That is genius.

Warren: It's genius, but I am not gonna even attempt to tell my boss to send me to Orlando for however many days for $2,700. And that doesn't include airfare, that doesn't include your hotel. So you're looking at probably easily $1,500 more,

CeeCee: Yeah

Warren: I mean, I know I can catch-- from where I am, I can catch a flight to Orlando for like less than $100 most...

And most probably 'cause it's Orlando, you can-- most places you can probably get it for probably less than $200 a flight. But the hotels during a convention, in or around the convention, I don't know where in Orlando it is, but you can bet it's not gonna be, cheap.

CeeCee: No. crazy. Now don't get me wrong, like if my company wants to send me like somewhere to like, you know, do a conference or something, I'm not gonna say no, and I'm gonna make the best of it, [00:35:00] 'cause I am a nerd at heart, and I do love to learn. but that's just astronomical for those prices. Like, that's... I think

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: I'm not like a sh- I'm s- I'm starting... I like the SIOP side, so like... It sounds so bad. I'm

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: No, I like the Society of Industrial Psychology. But yeah, that conference I feel like is more meaty, just because a lot of that stuff is so ingrained in actual behavioral science. So yeah, I tend to like that better. That's just my two cents.

Warren: Okay. I agree, and I think that-- I think organizations like that are gonna take advantage of SHRM's falling apart and, and give people these specialty, more specialty certifications and things along those lines versus this generic SHRM-SPHR or [00:36:00] SHRM-SCP or CP and things like that. But I just clicked on the virtual pricing

CeeCee: Ugh.

Warren: Virtual pricing is the exact-- of right now, now it looks like it was two hundred dollars cheaper for the other ones, but virtual pricing is the same twenty-seven hundred dollars.

So you're just saving your airfare and hotel. So yeah, I, hmm,

CeeCee: Yeah.

Warren: can't see spending that money.

CeeCee: It's a lot. It's a lot of money. 

Warren: It is.

CeeCee: things. I remember there was badge, like these little ribbons that you hung from your badge, and I was

Warren: Yes.

CeeCee: "Yes, I need all the ribbons I can get. Yes, I'm an SCP. Yes, I do the... Yes." Like, I love the... don't like swag per se, but I love like those things, like I love the badges and, and that kind of stuff. And I met a lot of people. I networked a lot and, some of which I still keep in touch with. I'm, I [00:37:00] love those things. But I think it's so cost-prohibitive, like

Warren: It is.

CeeCee: with you, like I think a lot of companies are kind of watching how they're spending money right now, especially with training. I think just because of the way the economy is and the things that are going on, like geopolitically, I don't think everyone's like, "Hey, let's throw some money out for training." Like, let's, it's more of like a hunker down thing. It's a hard ask to be like, "Hey, can I have, like, you know, $2,700 plus change to go to a conference?"

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: it's a lot.

Warren: It's a big ask and yeah, I just had to click on that, uh, that, uh, virtual attendee, virtual pass, excuse me, there

CeeCee: No, I'm either going

Warren: yeah.

CeeCee: Like, I'm

Warren: Yeah, exactly.

CeeCee: I'm not gonna sit in front of a computer for hours in my house No. Like, that defeats the purpose. And also, $200 is not that much of a discount to convince me to, even do [00:38:00] that.

Warren: And this is my whole thing with SHRM. They have moved from being an actual advocate of the HR profession to a, seminar company. I unsubscribe from all SHRM emails because every other time it's, "Oh, go here for this, go here for that, get this training, get that training, attend this."

And I just-- I'm not gonna do any of the above.

CeeCee: Yeah.

Warren: I, I'm, I'm not. So

CeeCee: lost the

Warren: yeah. I'm still waiting for another company to come in and be the advocate for HR professionals that SHRM used to be once upon a time

CeeCee: about this. I don't think there's gonna be another advocate. I think we're going in a direction of little,

Warren: Specialties.

CeeCee: little niche content creators, and experts, and thought leaders. Like, it's more like social media. It's more internet. I don't think, there's a huge need in our area for a [00:39:00] professional association to get some kind...

Like, I think we... There was a need for it. We were there.

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: of that has to do with the way SHRM structured their business. I think to your point, when they were, a company that gave certifications, and they were the advocate, and they were... Yeah, that's where money were spent. I'll... You know, that's great. I'll add the letters to the la- my last, you know, my name. But now I'm like, there's nothing, especially with, like, AI and stuff. Like, social media, AI, and everything, everything's at our fingertips. So why do

Warren: Mm-hmm.

CeeCee: 20-some hundred dollars, $2,700 to go to a conference?

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: So, like...

Warren: it's fine.

CeeCee: the thing. Like, it's fun. You get to meet people. You get to network. You get energized. There

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: not talk... Like, let's not forget about the fact that- [00:40:00] If you have a high potential employee who's, like, really into this stuff and, and, and really loves it, is that a small price to pay for engagement to keep

Warren: exactly.

CeeCee: Probably not. So yeah, there's, like, a lot of benefits to it, let's not get carried away with the cost. Like, let's just bring it down a little bit.

Warren: And once again, we're gonna-- I've, I've... One year I said I was gonna go through the entire speakers list and see who was substantive and who was fluff, and I c-could, I... Yeah, I started and because there were like three hundred plus speakers and having to research who they are and what they're doing.

Are they practitioners who have real world advice or are they just a consultant who has a great idea for a book and that the hardest journey you're ever gonna take is the eighteen inches between your head and your heart type of bullshit? No.

CeeCee: I will

Warren: it's gonna be a lot of that.

CeeCee: know someone right now, and they have written a book, And they're a consultant, and every single social media post is about [00:41:00] the book, and I'm like,

Warren: Yeah.

CeeCee: And to be honest, this would be a perfect platform for this individual to try to... 'Cause I don't know if they do it anymore, but they had, like, the little stage.

Warren: Hello?

CeeCee: big stage, and then they had many stages, and then they had, like a side stage, and it was like individuals who, like, you apply, and you get, like, I think it was 15 minutes, and that was it. And it was like,

Warren: A mega TED Talk.

CeeCee: like a little mini ti- yeah. And, like, people went through, like, 15 minutes, and it was at certain times of day. And I'm like, "This person would sign up for that in a heartbeat," because again, like, it's not,

Warren: well, hack that book.

CeeCee: like, selling the book.

Warren: Yeah. And that-- and honestly, from my experiences going to similar-- I've never been to a SHRM conference, but the state conferences and other things like that, that's what it's about, these consultants. Selling their book, hawking their consulting agency and things like that. And, it's just so disappointing that we have [00:42:00] to deal with that.

CeeCee: If you're open to a consultant and you need a consultant, that's a great place to go.

Warren: Yeah. If that's what you need,

CeeCee: Yeah.

Warren: maybe it'll be well worth your twenty-seven hundred dollars.

CeeCee: But yeah.

Warren: So anyhow, I think we- we've beaten this horse,

CeeCee: Yeah.

Warren: today and every time we talk about SHRM. But, anyways. Oh, this year it says three hundred and seventy-five plus sessions. So wow, that's, that's a lot of, lot of...

And how do you-- That's when... Okay, I said we were gonna land the plane, but here I go again.

CeeCee: Going

Warren: How do you decide what... like how do you decide which of these three hundred and seventy-five speakers and sessions you're gonna go to? I would have analysis paralysis. You wanna talk about I was trying to just whittle it down to who's fluff and who's substance?

I would be spending days and days of sleeplessness to figure out exactly what I'm gonna do to [00:43:00] get what I want out of it. I- I-

CeeCee: You and

Warren: I plan...

CeeCee: I just live off vibes. I'm like, "That sounds great. Let's go to that one." I'm

Warren: Yeah. No, I'd- I'd- I'd be planning it out and, losing sleep and, and things like that, and having FOMO. Oh, did I pick the right one? Did I-- Am I in the right set? Maybe I should have done this class instead of that one, or

CeeCee: It's really

Warren: session.

CeeCee: session and you see someone from, like, a company you used to work with, and you're, like, in a completely different state, and you're like, "You! Yeah, you!" That's the fun stuff.

Warren: No.

CeeCee: that's a good point for going with an entire team because then you can divide and conquer.

So if you

Warren: Yes.

CeeCee: you go with, like, three people, let's say, then you can start to divide and conquer. You get the slides, and then you can, like, coffee chat over, you know, and share what you learned. It's a fun... See? Just make

Warren: last,

CeeCee: cost-prohibitive,

Warren: last year at the state conference, my generalist and I, went together and our whole plan you have to register before you know who's coming and what the [00:44:00] sessions and everything are. They don't announce that till like two days before, but we registered to get the discount pricing and everything like that.

And we decided, okay, when the program came out, we each got a copy. I said, go to your desk and for each day and time of session, circle what you want to do. I'll circle what I want to do and we'll meet and we'll see what we're doing. There wasn't much choice. It's like, there's no dividing and conquering here.

There was one session that we attended over two days. We attended a separate session over two days because it just, the conference, you know, there wasn't any. We both, she's, I hope I'm not creating a mini me, but she's very anti-fluff. She wants some substance to her speakers. And she was even like, this is all just garbage.

A lot of this is just garbage. 

CeeCee: Love when someone can take the fluff but make it substantial. Like, [00:45:00] tell me... Give

Warren: A story

CeeCee: Give me the science behind why it feels good to get positive reinforcement from someone, but I want, like, the neurological science behind... Like, that's the kind of stuff I'm like, me... Like, I don't know.

Warren: Yeah. Now we're officially landing the plane after so many breaks. We thought we were going to have a short episode today, but it's not. So anyways,

CeeCee: That was my last neuron just fired its last little firing for the night, and it is time for me to go to bed.

Warren: Exactly. It's getting late. But thanks for joining us again. And as always, I'm Loren.

CeeCee: CC.

Warren: And we're here helping you survive HR one what the fuck moment at a time.